Being a therapist or a psychiatrist has got to be one of the hardest jobs anyone can have. Yet, at the same time, most professionals will tell you how much they love it. Still, it can’t be easy to process people’s traumas and then move on with your own life.
What may be even harder, however, is listening to people talk and realizing that you’re dealing with someone who lacks empathy. In other words, a sociopath. Initially, it may be inconspicuous, but over time, it becomes obvious. So, here is a collection of testimonies from therapists who shared on r/AskReddit the moment that made them realize they had a sociopath on their hands.
#1
I’m here to push back slightly on the early trauma assumption. I was adopted into a family who already had a biological son who was two years old.
He was diagnosed early!!
By 6 he was labeled an acquisitive psychopath and anti-authoritarian personality disorder.
This was in the early 60s and the labels were very different but I can assure you there was something very wrong with him.
I can also assure you my parents were lovely. Our home was safe, clean, upper middle class, polite, kind and my parents were wonderful people who sent us both to private school. That private school expelled him.
He dropped out of the sky insane.
There was no early trauma.
He was born missing empathy.
I think just like you could be born missing a limb, you could be born missing an emotional capacity.
I don’t see the need to blame his upbringing.
Sometimes a person is just born missing something.
Image source: ChayaAri, cottonbro studio (not the actual photo)
#2
A therapist friend relayed to me once that she had counseled a couple in the past, the husband was the sociopath. The wife wanted a divorce and it was important to him to present as happily married due to his career goals. He made a separate appointment so that he could compile a checklist of what he must do. Random physical affection, flowers, and so on. If I do this, then I get what I want. That’s how he viewed it, 100%.
Image source: LiliAtReddit, SHVETS production (not the actual photo)
#3
I am a clinical therapist. I met with a woman who I suspected was highly narcissistic. She came in because her partner forced her due to internal family conflict with her daughter. While she was discussing the issue she was not able to show any empathy towards her daughter… like none. Everything was about how the situation looked to her new husband and how she was embarrassed. She would then go on and on about how she is such a good mother. I attempted to do an exercise to see if she had any ability to do perspective taking but nahhhhhh. She came for two sessions and then was done.
Honestly they usually don’t last that long in therapy. I wasn’t willing to completely validate every little thing she said either.
Image source: dasderlydaddy, Antoni Shkraba (not the actual photo)
Sociopathy is an incredibly complex mental disorder, and it shouldn’t be confused with psychopathy. This is because experts say that sociopathy falls under the designation of “Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD),” the same category as psychopaths. And so people diagnosed with this disorder show signs of a lack of empathy, deceitfulness, and repeated disregard for laws.
Typically, though, they still have a lack of remorse, but may occasionally feel empathy and other emotions, even if they’re shallow or fleeting. They also tend to lie and deceive. But one thing that sets those with sociopathy apart is that they are not necessarily born with these qualities. Sociopathy has been found to stem mostly from nurture, including environmental trauma, childhood violence, or severe neglect.
#4
Not a therapist, but a friend of mine used to date someone who turned out to be one, the scariest part wasn’t the lies it was how completely normal and charming they acted right after getting caught doing something awful.
Image source: Cute-44, cottonbro studio (not the actual photo)
#5
My ex husband does not have a diagnosis but has a lot of sociopathic traits and the common childhood factors for it (antisocial behavior severe enough to involve law enforcement, childhood trauma).
Couples therapy seemed pointless because it seemed to never occur to the therapists that he was intentionally trying to hurt others. He presented as a mild tempered person who kept fumbling and making mistakes.
The things that he did were often so covert only he knew the truth. Things like making up excuses to why I couldn’t access my insurance info. so I would miss my appointment. I only figured it out because when confronted of course it was all an accident or a misunderstanding, and in the more obvious scenarios he just “lost his temper”, but the bad things happening never seemed to stop or get better. He downplayed any emotional distress I had. He finally told me something was wrong with him but that was just the way he was so he wasn’t going to change. I finally divorced him soon after even though I should have trusted my gut all along. But no, therapists did not seem to catch on.
Image source: GlitterBirb, https://kaboompics.com/ (not the actual photo)
#6
Worked at the jail and the first time I encountered antisocial personality disorder, informally known as sociopathy, was when I had a client who had done something extremely egregious to someone and was expecting to be let go soon bc they were “a contributing member of society.” Could not comprehend the pain and hurt they caused and rationalized it by saying “they should have just given me what I asked for, then it wouldn’t have been a problem.” It was very dark and sad that they couldn’t even realize they would be spending at least a decade in prison and couldn’t comprehend why.
Another notable one I had, once I made them feel comfortable, let the mask down and let me know how much joy he took in making women feel uncomfortable and threatened. He took pleasure in their faces being mortified and scared for their lives.
A sign I get instantly is if they look me straight in the eyes and say some wild s**t, testing me. Typically though, these individuals are charismatic and funny, and will lower your defenses but will slip the second they don’t get their way. If you can be very validating, they will spill everything- they love to talk about how they f**k people over w a smile. They have a justification for everything. They also are super observant so they will make comments about my schedule they noticed or something personal, fishing always and testing boundaries. Notably do not care about boundaries. They will find loop holes in rules constantly.
Image source: Goodsoup_666, Ron Lach (not the actual photo)
But what actually sets them apart from psychopathy, which also falls under the ASPD umbrella? Well, for starters, psychopathy isn’t necessarily a disorder that someone develops. Instead, it is mainly nature rather than nurture. Most people with ASPD, specifically those exhibiting psychopathic traits, will likely show signs of it from an early age, as it is often associated with genetics or structural neurological differences.
And there are also plenty of traits that separate them from sociopathy. Mostly, they tend to be cold, calculating, and emotionally detached, as they are considered less capable of experiencing genuine empathy or forming emotional bonds with others. They can be dishonest without feeling guilt or anxiety. Instead, they may pretend to feel emotions, becoming skilled manipulators. All while a sociopath may still regret their actions.
#7
First serious boyfriend. He confessed to burning small animals as a child. He pretended to be demon possessed to manipulate me, and also cut his arm up badly then prominently displayed it while sleeping so I’d come home to find it and think it was my fault. He befriended only people that were uglier and worse off than him. He lied effortlessly and without remorse. He hid his emotions entirely.
Image source: anon, MART PRODUCTION (not the actual photo)
#8
Trained as a therapist, but had this realization in a different job where I oversaw several people.
Within a few weeks of starting my job, I learned that one of my direct reports was notoriously difficult to work with. The first thing she told me about herself is that she’s brutally honest and people have a hard time with that. She demanded a higher title that she was under qualified for, demanded a higher salary she was not entitled to, and started crying to some of our highest-tier leaders when she didn’t get what she wanted. (Mind you, she barely knew these people.) When I tried to give her performance feedback, she got defensive and started to insult me with obvious lies. She always talked herself up and name-dropped, but nobody seemed to really like her. No amount of employer training, feedback, etc. had historically helped her change her behavior. She was smart, but seemed to constantly self-sabotage in her professional life with her behavior.
I basically learned the hard way that I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to work with someone else like that as a therapist.
Image source: xSoConfused, Getty Images (not the actual photo)
#9
I work with children. Only one so far that I’m pretty confident about. He was 9 years old. Gave me the creeps. Was very violent. Would keep his weapons as “trophies”, no joke. We had to call the cops once because he refused to give up the giant rock that he had used to bash another kids head open. His own mom told me she thought he was a “psychopath”, her words, not mine. There were many, many more instances of violence that he perpetrated on others. I just know he’ll be in the news one day.
Image source: thesmolstoner, Tamhasip Khan (not the actual photo)
#10
Quick distinction for people because there seems to be some conflating of the terms.
A *psychopath* is someone who tends to lack empathy and or guilt. They typically can’t form attachments and usually tend to be manipulative and dishonest, but can often times be deceptively charming. They’re the ones that usually remain calm under pressure and are more cold and calculating.
A *sociopath* tends to have poor impulse control and be far more violent or quick to anger. They’re more likely to have emotional outbursts and show erratic and impulsive behavior.
A big, sometimes debated, distinction is that psychopaths are born versus sociopaths that are usually created due to some environmental factors or trauma. I think a lot of people here are describing psychopaths.
Image source: NK1337, magnific (not the actual photo)
But getting a formal ASPD diagnosis is actually quite rare. This antisocial disorder affects about 1% to 4% of the adult population. As for true psychopathy, that only applies to around 1% of the general adult population. Nonetheless, the stories indicate that, in most cases, people themselves may not even know they have ASPD, since many choose not to seek a diagnosis in the first place.
Curiously, studies also show that men are roughly 3 to 4 times more likely to meet the criteria for ASPD than women, and the traits are most prominent in early adulthood. And due to the disorder’s tendency to involve disregard for social and legal norms, it’s not entirely surprising that around 40% to 70% of incarcerated men actually meet the diagnostic criteria for ASPD.
#11
From my therapist partner: “the pit that I got in my stomach when they walked in the door”.
Image source: afridorian, magnific (not the actual photo)
#12
I was treating someone and it was the way they looked through my soul. Like I wasn’t a person. It’s just this eerie feeling that they can’t connect like someone without ASPD, but they are trying to in some weird way, or think they need to in order to play a part. This client would notice absolutely everything I did. From how I moved, to when I touched my pen, to adjusting my shirt. Eventually, he started telling me how he was noticing me. He started to share something that would be considered emotional and there was such a disconnect between what he was saying and how he reacted….and not in a shutdown trauma response way. More like a blankness. It was just a feeling. Like when you know you know.
Image source: PhantomHawk7, Getty Images (not the actual photo)
#13
Oh I have one!
I was working in corrections with a younger inmate. He was attractive, charming, smart… but not in the way you would expect a sociopath to be. He wasn’t overly solicitous or groom-y, which is always something you can feel QUICKLY with the conman type. He was mostly pretty normal.
Later I am talking with my supervisor about my cases, and when I start talking about this guy, I realize that I really like him… more than I would expect to like someone after 3 sessions, especially with the VERY little we had in common. His ability to be appropriately likable without making me feel creeped out is, in hindsight, quite frightening.
I also replayed moments where I would reflect emotions back to him. I would say: “Wow, that sounds really hard,” and he would repeat: “yeah, it was really hard.” On its face, it’s not totally weird, but what I see more often when I reflect an emotion back to someone is that they will expand on it: “yes, it was awful, it was so hard, I hated it, etc.” He told me a horrific story about his mother and when I said “that must have been terrible for you”, he responded simply “it was terrible for me.”
There’s a lot more to this that I won’t share, but he ended up being transferred to a different facility for pretty violent behavior. I’ll never forget seeing him on the news and not being able to explain my reaction to my husband.
Edit: a word
Edit 2: It’s been interesting to see how many people believe that sociopathy/ASPD can be picked up in one interaction, so I’ll say it here: this was one data point in a collection of data points that clarified a diagnosis. Getting to this point means that I considered other possible diagnoses, intellectual differences, neurodivergence, behavior, trauma history, motivations for therapy, even whether or not this guys just possessed a shorter emotional range. If anyone tries to sell you on one single move or behavior that always indicates something as complex as a personality disorder, they’re ill-informed at best and intentionally deceptive at worst.
Image source: elljoch, Ron Lach (not the actual photo)
#14
DISCLAIMER: not a therapist, social worker who worked with a client diagnosed with aspd by a licenced psychiatrist.
he told really obvious lies to test my reaction that were often gratuitously violent. he would s*******m in front of me for the same reason. I observed him to have sudden, cold, violent outbursts and he held very long grudges. speaking with him for extended periods of time triggered my fight or flight as his body language didn’t quite match up with his words or the emotions he was mirroring. he was bored all the time. it felt like playing mental chess where the ‘winner’ exerted control over the other person. he was deeply invested in control. he had a strict moral code of his own creation that he adhered to. the only ’emotions’ I ever observed him to experience were rage, boredom, curiosity, anger, and satisfaction in the sense that he seemed to enjoy playing with other people’s perception of him, and he enjoyed scaring others.
Image source: xanidue, Nik Shuliahin (not the actual photo)
While dealing with, diagnosing, and treating someone with ASPD isn’t exactly a foreign concept to many mental health professionals — especially those specializing in the disorder — it can still be an incredibly draining task. For starters, the realization usually comes much later after the consultations begin, as they can often fall victim to what Hervey Cleckley called “The Mask of Sanity.”
This concept, which he introduced in his 1941 book The Mask of Sanity, explains how people with ASPD may present themselves as incredibly charming and rational. They will likely mimic behaviors they’ve internalized for years in order to appear as mentally stable as possible. But normally, a small slip will actually reveal the absence of emotion behind the mask, as many of the stories in the thread mention.
#15
Had a couple come in and as we were talking, he starts talking about how his last wife was “missing” and joked about how now he doesn’t have to pay child support. Red flags everywhere. The wife was already my client, afterward I pulled her in privately. I told her I was concerned, she starts crying and tells me she thought she was crazy and needed validation that something was wrong which was why she asked me to see both of them. She still wanted to go home, so we made a safety plan and kept meeting. She was able to leave about 5 months later. A week and a half later he k****d himself. The stuff found there was…creepy. The worst part was apparently he had purchased a s**t ton of ammunition about a week before my client left. That f****r was going to k**l her. I know it. I will be haunted for the rest of my life, and I’ll never know what happened to my client. It’s the worst.
Image source: Aggressive_Nobody235, Getty Images (not the actual photo)
#16
I’m a forensic psychologist, so I see people with psychopathic traits fairly often, but I only do assessments, not therapy.
There’s no universal initial sign. Many antisocial individuals are very friendly and polite, others are arrogant and rude. Some at least pretend to have empathy, others don’t try to hide their indifference.
The assessment is made by gathering multiple sources of information, as you can’t rely solely on what they tell you.
Image source: I_am_Nobody_Special, Antoni Shkraba (not the actual photo)
#17
The nicest sociopath I knew eventually became a therapist. There was nothing that unusual about her from the outside apart from being a bit robotic. And dating people much less attractive than her. One day she just straight up told me she was a sociopath, without joking at all. I asked her what her most sociopath qualities were and she mentioned she plans weeks/years advance how all her intimate relationships will go, like the exact date she’ll break up and the details of everything. She once tried to take advantage of me as while we were friends but wasn’t very good at it.
Thought it was reckless for her to become a therapist though. It’s not really a settled science and being human with someone is going to be more potentially healing than treating them like a specimen.
All the other people I knew as sociopaths never straight up said so but had a very funhouse mirror vibe to them, and were like comically evil or irresponsible.
Image source: ar_nt_resp, Sorin Basangeac (not the actual photo)
#18
Not a therapist, but I worked in an adolescent psych hospital. One day a very sweet 15-year-old boy I was fond of came up to me and said he was having a really hard time and wanted to talk. I happily took him to a private room so he could speak freely.
Important to note: children can’t be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. As a non-therapist, I also wasn’t privy to his entire chart. All I knew was his family was worried about his aggression, which was like 75% of the kids there, so I wasn’t too worried.
Anyways, we get to talking and after about 10 minutes he reveals he had been torturing small animals and was eventually admitted after k*****g the family dog. Brother. I played it cool, but got out of that room so fast.
Just waiting to see that kid on the news some day.
Image source: Nonyabeesners, cottonbro studio (not the actual photo)
Due to the eventual “mask falling” phenomenon that can occur during psychiatric treatment, very few people with ASPD actually stay in therapy after finding out they have the disorder. In fact, studies show that around 60% to 70% of patients diagnosed with ASPD end up dropping out of treatment altogether. Essentially, they may not even see their behavior as problematic because of the disorder’s ego-syntonic traits.
But truth be told, there is no “cure” for ASPD, nor is there any FDA-approved medication for it. Because of this, it is considered one of the most difficult mental health conditions to treat. But that’s not to say it’s impossible to manage. In fact, specialists might try a few different approaches, mostly focusing on managing behavior and reducing risk rather than trying to fix emotions that people with ASPD may not experience the same way.
#19
Actually yes. I was in a relationship with one for 4 years.
I never realized it until after we were broken up, but once I did it was completely obvious. He fit every meaning of the word. He completely lacked empathy, tried to mimic people to fit in, and could be very manipulative, yet somehow I was happy with the relationship and was upset to leave him; I suppose that’s the part where sociopaths are very like able people.
Image source: pdowney2, MART PRODUCTION b(not the actual photo)
#20
I have a boss who lies about everything. Like stuff he doesn’t even need to lie about, by pure virtue of having the power to fire people. He just lies because its simpler and faster than explaining the truth a lot of the time, I think. He knows we are going to find out, but just dgaf.
Also, his smile. It’s is objectively normal, but he only has ONE smile. The same for good news, or for great news, or for any reason at all. It’s all the exact same smile, with no variation, ever. Like it’s a tool he brings out and puts away when he’s done with it.
Image source: automirage04, RDNE Stock project (not the actual photo)
#21
I used to do Serious Mental Illness evaluations in hospitals and treatment centers. I had seen a handful of patients with Antisocial Personality Disorder. Some of these people started off rude and angry, others started off meek and mild, but the consistent trait is that after about 30-45 minutes or so the mask would start falling off. They would become disproportionately irritated by something, like having to repeat themselves, and then would quickly check themselves and try to charm back some disposition, that or they would put it back on me in a way that felt subtle and provocative.
When asked about a history of fighting, they’re quick to brag and boast, and give details that you never asked for. This is also when I would sadly hear detailed stories of animal cruelty.
I agree with many other therapists in this thread–antisocial personality disorder often stems from a significantly traumatic upbringing. Every single patient that I diagnosed with antisocial had horrific childhood trauma and was consistently failed by those who were supposed to help them. I will never forget the disturbing s**t I heard but I also don’t forget the innocence that could’ve been.
Image source: Past-Road-3097, Timur Weber (not the actual photo)
Funnily enough, though, a significant portion of people diagnosed with ASPD also end up in corporate positions. According to statistics, 4% to 12% of high-level corporate executives score relatively high on psychopathic traits. And this goes to show that no, it’s not just criminal settings that have a large portion of individuals with ASPD. They can also be powerful and rule everything we depend on.
So, Pandas, if you suspect someone in your vicinity may have ASPD, it may be hard to suggest that they turn to therapy — it is, after all, against the very basis of their beliefs. But it isn’t impossible. So, do let us know: Have you ever met anyone who fits the criteria for ASPD? Tell us all about it below!
#22
Not a therapist, but a peer counselor who does conflict mediation work. I was dealing with a she said/she said situation, where one person claimed the other was following and harassing her… and the person accused of harassing was actually a therapist.
Working with the first woman, she was distraut, provided witnesses to the accusations, and generally her story lined up.
With the accused, though… she seemed completely incapable of realizing she shouldn’t be basically hunting this woman down, and didn’t realize how guilty she sounded. She made it very clear that no matter where the other woman went, she’d persue her. I’m used to people like this, so it was pretty trivial to get her to confess to some pretty awful behavior, and she tried to justify it in ways that really wouldn’t work (she didn’t know about witnesses I had that countered her justifications).
Scary stuff, really.
Image source: JaronK, Vitaly Gariev (not the actual photo)
#23
Former therapist here – I worked in a variety of settings, and the only place I ever saw people who would be considered sociopaths was when I worked in the jail system.
Image source: Savings-Breath-9118, RDNE Stock project (not the actual photo)
#24
One time Life Coach, for anxiety and depression.
Sociopaths aren’t all that rare, nor do they pose any real threat to society, their families, etc. We use them all the time in policing, military, CEOs, etc. where they’re quite useful.
One client couldn’t comprehend hurting the feelings of others, as he couldn’t personally experience that emotion. So I just explained everything like a flow chart. ‘Do this, then mom won’t pay for this, support you, etc. Do that and she is more likely to support you.’
For most clients, exploring the emotional impacts their decision have on others is an important part of a healthy mindset, but for sociopaths this doesn’t really work.
Image source: ReasonablyConfused, Alexey Demidov (not the actual photo)
#25
They asked me this question point blank in their first appointment….
Image source: HenryHiggensBand
#26
When I talked to their CPS case worker and realized the extent of their charges and how much they had been lying the whole time.
Image source: Few-Psychology3572, RDNE Stock project (not the actual photo)
#27
Well, I’m diagnosed myself, but it’s honestly never been a serious issue, besides my own difficulties in maintaining relationships. Specifically, I’m the *last* person you’d want as a shoulder to cry on, I’m pretty much incapable of being empathic enough to support you in times of need.
After years of work, I’ve gotten to the point where I can at least understand why you feel the way you do on an intellectual level, at least, and attempt to come up with a somewhat passable response to that.
As for any darker tendencies and/or antisocial/immoral behavior, I’ve kept that well under wraps for decades, just by making an effort to associate only with nice people, who give me behavioral examples that I work hard to emulate.
There were issues in my younger days though, back when I was in the streets, involved in crime and heavy d***s. Remove me from my positive environment and people for too long…even now at 43 I know that it wouldn’t take me too long to shift back to that other guy.
Image source: anon
#28
I was a counselor for 12-13 year old boys at a summer camp. One of my campers (I’ll refer to as George) would sometimes exhibit strange behavior, such as dancing when we were talking about the H*******t (the camp has an educational component). It wasn’t even to get attention – he was behind most people, and it wasn’t really a distraction. He was just completely unconcerned by the subject at hand, even when it was pointed out to him.
He had a friend in the bunk, who I’ll call Adam they were each other’s best friend in camp. A few times, I witnessed George and Adam having this strange interaction where George would list all off the gruesome ways he wanted to k**l Adam. They were really detailed descriptions. And the whole time George would have a big smile on his face. Like he was genuinely getting pleasure from his fantasizing.
The straw that broke the camel’s back was when my co-counselors found George choking Adam. Not just horsing around – the kid was clearly struggling to breathe. And it took both of my co’s to pry his hands off.
Afterwards both kids agreed it was all in good fun. But my co counselors were so shaken up by it that I can’t tell.
Image source: Jfightmann
#29
Probably my ex. He was very charismatic and likeable, but behind closed doors he was really violent and easily irritated. A completely different person than his usual persona with his friends/co-workers/family.
Not only that but I found old photos of us and his eyes were d**d in most of the pictures and his smile was off, almost as if they were taken a split second before he put on his mask.
That guy had some serious issues.
Now that I think about it, his entire family in family photos had the same expressionless eyes and forced smiles. Especially his dad.
Image source: Stayinclosetplease
#30
Ex-boyfriend. It’s so weird because I didn’t realize he was a sociopath until this week when my therapist hypothesized he might be one (My therapist didn’t technically diagnose him since my therapist has never met him but rather stated my ex seems to exhibit similar patterns to sociopaths). My ex has stolen large amounts of money from both of his parents and both of his grandmothers. He stole a friend’s car. He took his tuition money (thousands and thousands of dollars) and never enrolled in school but rather used the money to go to Europe. He may have stolen more but I’m unaware of it (or believed him when he said he didn’t). He can’t hold down a job and is always fired for some mysterious reason (I wouldn’t be surprised if it was for stealing). He constantly f****d with my head. I literally think since the day I met him and up to two years after we broke up, he’s gaslighted me in myriad ways. Never exhibited anxiety or empathy of any kind. I’ve never seen him nervous even in situations in which most people would be nervous. He’s extremely charming, cool, clever and funny yet never has more than one friend at a time. They last until he uses them up and they disappear. He is very good at doing something s****y to you yet making you feel like YOU’RE the one who did something s****y and YOU’RE the one being crazy because you’re upset that he did something s****y. It took me a very long time to realize he is a bad and evil person. He is really good at hiding it for as long as possible. I hope I never see him again and regret ever meeting him. I think I dodged a major bullet.
Image source: joeb7474, Guillermo Berlin (not the actual photo)
#31
One of my husband’s friends. They used to be close but thank God my husband has grown tired of his s**t. He’s definitely one of those guys with that smile that can win over anyone. Everyone loves him. They trust him instantly. But once you get to know him, he’s rash, selfish, and f*****g insane. Like, had a car full of friends and floored it to 90mph and jokingly swerved to scare us and then got mad at us for “not taking a joke.” He has a wife and daughter but doesn’t care. Constantly spends all their money in the moment and shrugs it off. They will live on ramen for weeks and make her feel like it was her fault he went and bought a new Vape on a whim. He’s used my husband and I for money before and guilt tripped us when we asked for him to pay us back like promised. I could go on and on.
I’ve had my suspicions for a while now that he could be a sociopath, but honestly watching the new video by Shane Dawson kind of just solidified it. Funnily enough, this friend is always compared to reminding people of Jake Paul, too.
Image source: FoxxyRin
#32
I was just thinking about this today! My former captain at my firehouse/supervisor at my old job. He would get himself into those positions of power and would run the programs for the both the new employees/members at the fire house. This way he could meet all the incoming people and make himself appear very friendly and helpful. Then he could prey on the young men/women (he was bi) and basically have this ring of people he would have s*x with and use his position of power to control them. He would always make a bunch of promises and never follow up on them. And because he was a supervisor at his job he’d offer jobs to new people at the firehouse and use that as leverage if they let him control them. I’m not even going to get started on the very uncomfortable s****l harassment that would go on. He never touched anyone (that I know of) but would make constant remarks and everyone just kinda went along with it. Eventually he got kicked out of the firehouse for this, as well as just straight up not doing his job. He fooled me when I first joined because I didn’t know anyone at the firehouse and he was the first person to be friendly to me. I’m straight and never did any of the s****l stuff but he would still make constant remarks and I noticed that he’d do that to everybody. He would have his little gang of “boyfriends” who were 18-20 year old guys that would just follow him around everywhere And do what he wanted. He’s in his 50s by the way. It was really creepy and I finally talked to some other guys who took notice of what he really was.
Image source: OldBayandKayaking, ritvars klavins (not the actual photo)
#33
Not a therapist but worked with a teenager with mental problems that was in a special type of “prison” and I was a guard and he could not visit therapists without 3 guards with him since he had tried to m****r a small child that was his niece, his grandmother and another teenager when he was in joint housing. He also over powered and SA a former female staff worker before they knew how dangerous he was.
His first therapist session starts and we were ordered to stand behind a wall and listen and come running in if he attacks the therapist. I had never heard him talking about how he felt about the things he did. But when the therapist starts asking him about guilt and how he feels and he start describing how he felt when he tried to m****r people, that he felt so alive, in control and he had imagined it for so long and how happy he was that the feeling was just like he imagined it and when they moved over to the SA on staff member that was a very serious attack and he described it as hot and he felt the same control and he had pleasured himself before it and imagined it and afterwards its all he thinks about when he pleasures himself and how h***y it makes him.
He went on about that the only thing he thinks about is how he can injure, k**l or SA the current staff and he even falls asleep with thought like that since they provide him comfort and calm him down.
After that session he was moved to a mental hospital, medicated and isolated and I know today 12 years later he is still in a mental hospital and I also know the conclusion was that he was never supposed to be free, ever.
Honestly after listening to the session, my world view changed. There is pure evil in this world not driven by hatred or anger but driven by people who enjoy hurting others.
Image source: AudunSvedda
#34
The prison system developed a riddle for prisoners that had a high success rate of determining if someone was a sociopath. The riddle goes something like this.
>A man is attending a funeral, and while standing in the line to pay respects him and a woman locked eyes for a few moments. A week after the funeral the man k****d that woman’s mother. Why did he k**l her mother?
Many sociopaths don’t miss a beat before answering “because he wanted to see her again.”.
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#35
My husband was a therapist and a big part of his caseload were people on court-ordered therapy whilst on parole. It wasn’t hard to spot them, they demonstrate Callous and UnemotioNal Traits (CU*T). Therapy was basically useless, he had to always find their angle and emphasise the benefits they would personally gain by doing the right thing. “Normal” people don’t need that. All relationships are transactional to people like that, just find their currency and work with that.
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#36
The real test is when you say “I think you might be a sociopath” their response is “cool!”.
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#37
My father in law. If you look up men in power at high levels of corporate America, this is actually very common. During the divorce, his sociopathic tendencies were all to easy to spot. Still a nice guy… But he’s only in it for number one. If your goals and such align with his, no problem. Just one of those things you really need to keep in mind in any and all interactions.
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#38
Some of my clients are big bankers, Goldman Sachs big, former CEO to be exact, big business owners, presidential cabinet level politicians.
Let me tell you the f**k what, those guys make my blood cold. The way they act in normal conversation makes it very clear that they are capable of real darkness, it’s very difficult to describe.
One guy, I go in to his house , he and his wife are getting ready to go out to dinner, his wife comes out to show off her outfit before dinner and asked “how do I look?”. Right away I’ll tell you the dude is a billionaire, his wife is a 10 and her clothes are worth more than my car, she looks incredible.
He looks are up and down and says “No, I don’t like it.”
The whole thing took maybe 8 seconds, worst 8 seconds of my life. It really stuck with me, it’s hard to explain what it was like. I guess maybe a good parallel is everyone knows someone who is always saying something that is half true but never gets confronted, something like that. Like you can tell when something is a white lie, that feeling you get about something you have no proof for. Or like how when a lion is doing nothing it has an almost vacant expression but when it’s hunting suddenly you can see it’s soul through it’s eyes. You can see things that are true and real even if there is really no proof. Something about that interaction between them really rubbed me the wrong way, my brain was screaming danger.
It’s the whole thing about sociopaths mimicking emotion, when the mask drops and you see the moment the switch is flipped it’s like an uncanny valley experience. You’re seeing something that’s not real, you know it isn’t but it looks too real not to be. You can see the light go out and their soul leave the edges of their eyes. All these guys have examples like that, if you are around it enough you can see it in normal conversation with them.
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#39
My dad. I noticed I don’t know anything about him after 19 years. He also decided to ditch my mum and I by writing her a text right before he got on his plane to leave. He was quietly moving stuff out of the house to his work, where he packed it up. He took documents, clothes, and day-to-day stuff. He hid his keys to the house in the basement, and even had his car ready to be shipped to where he went. He didn’t plan on talking to my mum again, and he said his leaving was her fault. They didn’t talk for a few days, but my mum doesn’t give up. She got him to talk, and finds out he left because he hated his job and the people there. Yet he still insists on being the one who has to forgive her, and not the other way around. Now he realizes he f****d up big time because he chose the most expensive place, where he not only had to pay a large import on his car, but also had to retake his drivers test after driving for over 40 years. All this because he wouldn’t talk to my mum who would’ve considered starting this process earlier and going with him.
Tl;dr: My das is a sociopath because he’s impulsive, hot-headed, thinks everything is about him, and is willing to destroy everything he has on a whim and for his own benefit.
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#40
Honest opinion? I’d probably just tell them that the biggest red flag is total detachment. like, when someone describes ruining someone else’s life n their face is completely blank, or they’re almost amused by it bcz they only care about how it affects them.
that n the fake charm. when someone is too good at telling u exactly what u want to hear, but u can tell it’s completely rehearsed bcz there’s zero actual emotion behind it.
wut do u think though, r u planning to post this on a specific thread?
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#41
Friend was in a relationship and I realised when she said that his latest therapist said he was done and didn’t need further therapy.. literally unsure that any professional would be able to work with him..
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#42
I’m a social worker in a jail. I am working with a person right now that up until now has been able to maintain a picture perfect life from the outside, but is bone chillingly cold and indifferent about why they are in custody which is some pretty stomach churning harm done to their kid from the time they were a month old. You can literally see their mask slip when you hit on something they thought they were fronting well on, it is a micro-expression that I think most people would miss but after years of working with justice involved folks, it sends a shiver up my spine.
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#43
Not a therapist, but a twin. He protects people, but when it benefits his image, too. Besides this quality, he’s spent his whole life lying to people. It is pretty much a game to pick out the truths and lies in his stories. But now, he’s in legal trouble, and we still aren’t sure where the lies end and truth starts.
Being a sociopath doesn’t make you a bad person. For parents out there, identify it early when you can. Sociopathic people are capable of morals, but only when we recognize sociopathy.
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#44
An ex-friend of my fiance’s. He still associated with a mutual friend group so he’s around more than I’d like. Anyways, he derives a lot of pleasure from ruining people’s lives. He was immensely proud of himself for getting another friend of his convicted of a felony by convincing him to represent himself. He seemed to think it was hilarious. He only shows emotion when he feels like it will illicit a response from an audience. He came with us to visit a close friend in the ICU and the whole time, he could not have given less of a f**k. He was entertained by it, like it was a big joke. When we came back later in a larger group, he was suddenly the most emotional one. It went away as soon as they stopped watching. Then he spent the funeral trying to hook up with the d******d’s girlfriend. He also has a history of violence and manipulation.
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#45
My beat friend in high school was a pathological liar and a big attention seeker. I didn’t know at the time. When I first started going through depression she would always tell me “such and such said this about you”. Over the course of the year she slowly separated me from all my other friends and constantly reminded me that everyone hated me. Made my depression so much worse. Then when I was at my lowest and completely isolated I started getting anonymous a***e online. I eventually attempted s*****e and even when she visited me in hospital she would tell me about the mean things kids were saying about me in school. Few months later I figured out that everything she said was a lie and the anonymous a***e was her. She was trying to get me to k**l myself. Because if I had d**d it would give her so much attention, losing your best friend to s*****e. I cut her off straight away. She went on to lie about her mother having cancer and said she needed brain surgery at one point.
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#46
I helped a client overcome a very severe lifelong fear of flying, then months later he tells me that he no longer fears flying, but that has nothing to do with the work we did together and the change in behaviour/feelings “just happened”out of the blue.
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#47
So I’m an LPC and I started my career with offender work. There’s almost always a very specific feeling that comes with working with a sociopath or a psychopath. Usually it is the feeling or “vibe” that guides me to do a full evaluation. I don’t know how to explain other than a person feels “off” in a clinical way that warrants more investigation. Thats from a very small group of individuals who got caught, however. Really, it’s the ones who come off as perfectly normal and never get caught that you have to worry about.
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#48
I’m a mental health nurse.
Something interesting that can be a theme with people with antisocial personality disorder is that they can be very quick to fight against a perceived injustice that doesn’t involve them. So often if they witness someone else be rude or aggressive towards a member of staff they will intervene loudly. The same person will then in time proceed to be rude/violent to hospital staff.
Often these people have had utterly traumatic childhoods, I’d imagine witnessing someone being a****d is very difficult if a***e has been a feature of your life.
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#49
My client I saw for seven years told me he was in waste management business and it was quickly revealed through our sessions he was in organized crime. We started the work to treat spontaneously panic attacks he had with his family (in gatherings and such) that would cause him to fall unconscious.
I noticed early on that he’d get emotional regarding animals and small children (mainly small dogs, horses and ducks) but not so much towards the adults in his life. Those were the early tells for me, though those kind of diagnoses I never assigned to him in therapy itself, as I knew it’d only make him regress. He also talked openly about his infedity and didn’t seem much effected by how his wife recieved it, and even tried a pass on me a few times when we first started, which I quickly shut down but commenced treatment. Admittedly I was charmed by his larger than life personality and the nuances of his upbringing that led him to the life he’s led (a surprising amount can be traced back to his mother with BPD) I realized after a dinner with my other therapist friends that talk therapy actually enables and helped him fine tune his criminal operations and so I ceased treatment with him and recommended him to another counselor.
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#50
My stepfather (SF) was a total sociopath. He was literally the prototypical bad cop, too. Many years ago, he used to treat his teenage son like c**p (the same way SF was treated by his parents when he was young). It really hit me how messed up he was when my stepbrother started to tell my SF how sad and angry he was about how my SF was treating him, at which point my SF sent my SB to therapy. And then proceeded to lie to the therapists about my SB, which prompted the therapist to diagnose my mistreated 13yr old SB as bipolar and put him on some crazy d***s that were ruining the poor kid. Fast forward a few years, and my SF had cheated on my mom with the therapist and got married to (and since divorced) her. Therapist was his 4th wife, and he since married and divorced from his 5th. Fortunately, I’d intervened in my SB’s medication cycles at the time since I knew he was simply a normal kid and his dad was the messed up one. Anyway, today, 15+ years later, SB is a totally normally functioning professional adult and his father is caving from years of treating people like p**p, and his family has pretty much cut ties because of what he’s done to their relationships over the years. Quite sad, really.
Edit: was texting my stepbrother when this got a little attention, and realized I forgot to mention the therapist was the ex-wife of a long time partner of my SFs on the police force.
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#51
My ex girlfriend. There were a lot of signs but the final straw that set it into stone was when she dumped me and I tried to make it work with her, assuming she made a rash decision. Took her to lunch, and she ran up a bill of over $100.00 on food, booze and dessert and had the audacity to ask me for gas money after. In the car ride somewhere else, she told me she has no desire to be with me and that I could take her to court for the money she promised to pay back to me. I was stunned. For a couple weeks she tried talking to me, and one night I picked up the phone and she started telling me how hot her coworkers are and that she bought a new d***o to play with herself to the thought of them. All that stuff aside, she told me weeks later that I was selfish for not wanting to be her friend after all that because if I truly cared about her I would want her in my life in any capacity.
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#52
I was in the field for 5 yeara. Maybe some people on inpatient had the diagnosis, but guys, it’s really rare.
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#53
My ex wife was diagnosed with anti social behavior disorder. I tried to understand it. I sought help from professionals and lay people to understand it. I still don’t have a grasp on it. To hear run of the mill people diagnose someone is infuriating.
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#54
I mean if the person starts talking about how they loved to set fires and t*****e puppies as a kid…
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#55
I used to beleive I was a sociopath because I had pretty much no emotions besides anger and emptiness. I thought it made me powerful, and I’d become a CEO or something.
I was told “you’re probably not a sociopath, but you need serious help, and it isn’t a good thing, and it’s gonna s***w you over.” It did. I ended up dropping out of college and getting diagnosed with bpd.
Six years later and two rounds of DBT group therapy later I got tested again and no longer meet the criteria.
Triple checked that I’m on my no-photos account before posting this lol.
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#56
I’ve said this in other responses, but that is a star in a way larger constellation.
I get the sense of a lot of people are looking for one “gotcha!” symptom that always points to a diagnosis… and that’s just not how it works. This same interaction in a different context might make me wonder if the client is neurodivergent, depressed, not interested in therapy, fearful of speaking about their emotions, or many, many other conclusions.
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#57
For what it’s worth, I stopped my coaching 10 years ago.
I seemed to fill a needed niche focused on nutrition, diet, exercise, meditation, etc. that gets overlooked by either therapists, psychiatrists, and general practitioners. I know I helped hundreds of people, but found the emotional drain too overwhelming. Maybe if I’d continued getting my license I would have learned how to limit that.
My biggest concern with committing to a particular branch of licensed therapy was that none could demonstrate that they do more harm than good. The studies seem to show that some people get significantly better with clinical therapy, but an equal number get harmed. I’ve never read a single study, that didn’t later have it determined that the data was faked, that supports any particular method of therapy.
In the end, I seem to land on the belief that there are good people who genuinely help their clients, with and without licensing. Likewise, there are people who generally harm their clients, with and without licenses.
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#58
I’m a little late, and not sure if anyone will read this, but I wanted to add some contrast.
My fiance is a sociopath. I figured it out myself, brought it up, and he admitted he’d been diagnosed in the past.
We have a lot of problems with him lying to me, and s****ing me over to look out for his own interests, but overall he’s not a bad person.
I love him, and he loves me — I’m not sure if what he feels as love is the same as what everyone else feels as love, but he appreciates what I do for him and that I’ve stuck by his side for so many years.
Sociopaths aren’t all s*****g psycho a******s. Some of them are just normal, personable people who just don’t view things the same way we do, but still have similar needs and desires in life.
Being with him is actually a lot easier than most of my past relationships. Nobody is perfect. We actually broke up briefly and got back together, so I knew what I was signing up for. I’m f****d up in my own way so I understand, and I think we complement each other well. I can be too emotional and he grounds me. I look the other way when I know he’s b********ng me, because I can tell when he’s lying and it’s usually about stuff that doesn’t matter, so whatever.
I’m happy.
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#59
I know several, but it’s cheating because I work on a psychiatric unit.
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#60
I was good friends with a girl who I’m almost certain to have an undiagnosed case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder which I believe is under the umbrella of sociopathy.
I’ve watched this girl destroy relationship after relationship. She’s literally incapable of holding down a healthy friendship.
She took zero accountability for her actions.
Showed an inability to display empathy.
Nothing was ever her fault.
She believed everyone was jealous of her.
And despite my unrelenting efforts to encourage to seek professional assistance, she refused because in her eyes/mind, there was no problem to mend. It’s everyone else who was sordid.
I have a theory and it spoke to my ex girlfriend as well… If you have a falling out with a few people here and there, that’s life… But if it happens over and over and over and over again, there comes a point when you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what the f**k am I doing wrong here. As opposed to constantly playing the victim card.
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#61
I was sent to thestate hospital for a court ordered evaluation for 60 days. I was 16yo. The ward was for ward held bad people. Violent murders r**e, federal transffersyou name it. This will sound weird but all of the truly terrifying **ones smelled like sour milk. I have heard that people and animals can smell illnesses. Behaviors and that smell were always the same.**.
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#62
Not a therapist but the sociopath word is kinda beside the point, its more about whether they treat people like props then flip into poor me when someone calls it out. thats the part that messes you up not whatever label ends up in a chart.
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#63
The man in the mirror.
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#64
When he said he’d shove someone in the way of a bullet.
Worked for him for another two years and can definitely confirm.
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#65
Emergency medicine physician here, I did psychiatry clinicals though. I remember that there was a quiet kid that would usually refuse to talk to the psychiatrist. One day he went off on him, he didn’t do anything. He wasn’t delusional, depressed or had any s****o-type disorders tough. So he was deemed a psychopath.
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