TVOvermind Round Table: Arrow Season 3

With the launch of the The Flash and all the crossovers the series did with Arrow this season, how do you look at them now that the seasons are over, and should they increase or decrease the numbers of crossovers for next season?

Andy Behbakht: The crossovers worked pretty much all of the time, because you got the best of both worlds. I especially loved Oliver in the two-part crossover back in December, because that’s when we got a more cheerful Oliver, closer to the comic version while also staying true to what they have established in the TV show. I do think, like most people, that the later ones were perhaps a bit more flawed because of the odd timelines. I know one of the producers said that whenever we had The Flash characters being visited by Arrow characters (Ray and Felicity) or Joe and Cisco going to Starling to see Quentin and Laurel, that it was taking place before everything that went down in Arrow happened. But Oliver being there in The Flash‘s penultimate Season 1 episode and Barry being in Arrow‘s finale left me scratching my head, because how was Oliver, as Al-Sah-Him, be able to visit Central City without Ra’s reacting? I think other than that, the crossovers worked really well, especially one big crossover per season. As long as the timelines are well explained in the actual episodes and not just in interviews with the producers (because not everyone does read every interview that comes out), then I think they have a structure that works.

Jasef Wisener: I think that both shows really used the crossovers well (including, at least personally, the timeline-confusing Oliver appearance on the penultimate episode of The Flash), and I would have no problem with the number increasing next season. Just as in the comic world, an established universe that effectively utilizes both standalone storylines and crossovers/events can have a great effect in viewership, and I think fans would love more of these type of events (especially with the addition of Legends of Tomorrow).

Nick Hogan: I really think the crossover episodes were wonderful. I loved seeing Joe and Cisco work with the Starling City PD, and seeing Barry rescue everyone at Nanda Parbat. I absolutely think they should keep them coming, because they are so much fun. However, I think the number of crossovers should be reasonably close to the same as this season, because with any more, it would start to feel like one giant show.

Blaise Hopkins: The crossover amount was perfect this season. We love seeing crossovers, but in each show, we basically received season long crossovers. In The Flash, there was the Firestorm plot throughout the season and in Arrow we got Laurel as the Canary and Ray becoming Atom. It was handled perfectly because both shows can carry themselves, and it never feels like they rely on using crossovers.

Araceli Aviles: I choose to answer this the same way as I did for The Flash. I like the idea of having one big crossover a year, and then a few character crossovers in between, so long as they fit in organically with the individual show storylines. There was only one time when the crossover felt forced, when Oliver showed up in The Flash’s penultimate episode. It didn’t make sense to where Oliver was in the Arrow storyline, and it was never explained, which is something that should never happen. This is going to be especially important to keep in mind with the addition of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow.

Laura Schinner: Here’s the thing: I don’t mind the crossovers. In fact, I think they’re really fun to watch. But they become a problem when they start affecting the quality of the writing. Sure, it’s great that Oliver got to show up in Central City and fight alongside Barry and Firestorm. Everyone wanted to see Stephen and Robbie Amell work together and they delivered. They had to sacrifice good story telling along the way, though. There is no doubt in my mind that Ra’s would not have allowed Oliver to leave Nanda Parbat in the middle of his training as Al Sah-Him to go help Barry. No way. And they offered zero explanation for it, just assuming that we wouldn’t notice or something. Sorry, but the audience is smarter than that. And I know I’ve already talked about my issues with Ray, but his character’s awfulness aside, he brings up another issue. At some point, Arrow became the launching pad for a million other DC shows, trying out characters before giving them their own show. With Barry, it worked fine but with Ray, they had to sacrifice good storytelling to fit him in. When they saw most of the audience hated him (because he WAS a stalker), they tried to sweep that under the rug and essentially make him the male version of Felicity. Watching the previews for Legends of Tomorrow, it occurred to me that if he had never been introduced on Arrow, I might actually like his Legends character. But it will be hard to forget my intense hatred of Ray Palmer.

Chris King:  Personally, I enjoyed pretty much every crossover between Arrow and The Flash this season and would love continue to see a big one between the two series annually in the fall (which I believe is the plan). However, the smaller crossovers between the two shows should only take place when there’s a real need for it, so that they will not damage either one of the series’ central narratives, which I feel like did happen in the final two episodes of Arrow and The Flash this year, when Oliver helped Barry fight Reverse Flash and Barry sped over to Nanda Parbat.

Arrow definitely has felt the impact of the “Batman effect” with how dark the show is. Does Arrow need to start moving away from that and head into a similar direction that The Flash has, or do you prefer to have Arrow and The Flash be opposite of each other in terms of tone?

Andy Behbakht: I think it both needs to move into a brighter tone while also staying true to the DNA of what the show started out as. Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg made a good comment last year that it was important to have The Flash be different from Arrow, because otherwise, you would be making the same show twice. However, I think that Arrow may have gone too dark in Season 3. Third seasons are when shows usually go darker more than ever, and some do it very successfully. But Arrow did it way too much, and it was hard to have fun watching the show this year. I keep bringing up Batman, not as someone that I slam, but just as a factor that I think Arrow needs to move away from; you don’t have to go 100% The Flash-y, but they should absolutely try and adjust it a bit more. Even Stephen Amell has gone on record to say that he wants to play a more classic Oliver Queen that is a lot more sassier, cheerful, and cocky, which is exactly what I want to see, too. Arrow is still a phenomenal Green Arrow adaptation, which can become even better. You now have Black Canary and Speedy established, just give me an Arrow or Green Arrow that is not filled with so much angst like Batman, and we are good to go. I believe Season 4 will start to head into a brighter tone, but also keep some of its grittiness, which I am 100% fine with. Arrow is the reason why we have all these other DC TV shows and that’s why, for Season 4, I want it to be the best that it can be without having to feel that it has to borrow Batman aspects, or rely too heavily on a specific romantic relationship.

Jasef Wisener: I like that the two shows are very different in tone, but I do feel that Arrow should go back to the slightly lighter tone than it had in its first two seasons. The show has always been pretty dark, but Season 3 showed that you really do need to let some light in. Based on comments from the actors and producers, I think everyone involved with the show understands this. I’m hopeful that next season will see some improvement.

Nick Hogan: Dark and gritty comic book dramas are getting old, I will admit, but that doesn’t mean Arrow should change its format. I think the difference in tone is essential to separating it and The Flash as shows. I really enjoy both for what they are, and do not want them to change too much. Integrity is important to me. However, I actually kind of enjoyed The Flash having a darker, cliffhanger finale, while Arrow had a happy one for a change. Change in tone is something that should be experimented with on a limited basis, but there is no need to compromise artistic integrity.

Blaise Hopkins:  I think both shows work perfectly because they are like a yin and yang. Look, as I said before, we are still watching an origin story for Oliver. I don’t know and don’t care if he will ever be addressed as the Green Arrow on the show, but I definitely think the plan is to mold him into a relaxed and controlled person who, through his mistakes, learns how to balance having a personal and professional life and never loses sight of happiness.

Araceli Aviles: The two shows work because of their individual tones, but that doesn’t mean that they need to go to extremes to stay there. Arrow’s problem this year was not enough balance. You know things have gone overboard when Felicity of all people is more weepy than steady.

Laura Schinner: I don’t think they need to make Arrow light for it to be good again. There are many other issues they need to fix, but this is not one of them. The first two seasons were incredibly dark at times, but it worked because the writing was solid and believable. Oliver Queen and Barry Allen are very different people who went through different experiences. It makes sense for Oliver to be more broody and Barry to be more optimistic. Coming back next season, Oliver will be in a relationship with Felicity, who has in a way become his ‘light.’ While it may be nice to see our brooding hero smile a little bit more, I don’t think the show can ever become as light-hearted as The Flash. It simply wouldn’t work.

Chris King: I think both shows have their own tones and styles, and I enjoy them both for different reasons. The pervading darkness on this season of Arrow was a byproduct of the story the writers were telling. Oliver literally had to lose every part of himself before he could rediscover who he was, and in order to do that, he and his team needed to be challenged more than they ever have before. Did that also produce the best result? No, of course not, but I would never want to see Arrow try to change its DNA just because of complaints that it was “too dark” this season. We can let Oliver smile more, we can let him and Felicity be happy together, and we can let Diggle crack jokes, but that won’t alter what Arrow is; it’s all about balance, which is something that Arrow had in both its first and second seasons. The writers tried to do things a little differently in Season 3, and I don’t blame them for attempting to. However, the series just needs to go back to basics (it doesn’t have to try to be The Flash) in order to reclaim the type of show it used to be for Season 4.