Battlestar Galactica was never going to end in an acceptable way as far as its more rabid fandom is concerned – mostly because it is ending, and along with it all of the enjoyable social rituals fans developed to go along with it. At the end of the day – regardless of how well constructed a mythology is – we are creatures of comfort. Just look at how we kvetch when our favorite shows change time-slots. It is rarely actually due to the change itself creating an inconvenience, it’s most likely the upset to our inner clocks – there is just not a good enough story to turn our lives upside down over, be it Battlestar Galactica, LOST, or Heroes (which should be announcing an end date soon enough.)
That said, how did Battlestar do in driving it home? I’ll admit, I was a bit underwhelmed by what seemed to be the straight-forward space opera setup of the past few episodes. I’m more addicted to the mysterious and weird plot elements. How was Starbuck brought back from the dead? How is it that Roslin and other non-Cylons were experiencing shared visions? What happened to the ‘us’ of Earth? That there would be a fantastic space battle with astonishing special effects there was never any doubt – as far as I was concerned. Nobody has ever wondered whether Battlestar Galactica would deliver top of the notch sci-fi action fare. That has been there since day one, unique visual styling and all – and I’m not even a big fan of snap zooms in real life.
Ron Moore has said that he had a revelation that it was “it’s the characters stupid” all along. Something he called an “epiphany.” Channeling his knack for pulling in political aphorisms, I respond with “No Duh.” Again, that anybody should expect Battlestar Galactica to fail on the character aspect of story telling is a serious miscalculation.
Moore’s moving flash of light prompted him to give us preachy flashbacks that seemed to highlight how alcohol impairs judgment. Adama had the chance to bounce Boomer, but alcohol clouded his judgment. Roslin gets loosened up with a little alcohol and winds up sleeping with a former student who was hot for teacher – something she wakes up from and somehow converts into an epiphany of her own, burying herself in liberal politics. Starbuck and Lee get drunk and almost sleep-together while her boyfriend, his brother, sleeps near by. Okay, enough booze please. Is this a plea for help Moore? Because I have to tell you, as a platform for character revelations “what they did before the war, while they were drunk” was kind of boring – and the omnipresent thread of alcoholism did come off as some sort of tip of the brain partial abortion of an allegory.
Yeah, that’s right – scorched earth had Cuba and the Yucatan. Just like ‘other’ Earth. (Pic from Crossroads Part 2)
The whole thing with our Earth turning out to be some other place not named Earth… good in hindsight, but doesn’t fit. Here is the problem. When we first see burnt out earth, we can see our continents. Yeah, that is our earth. As a matter of fact, when the episodes involving barbecued Earth were introduced, the science was studied to a fine degree by the eggheads here, and yeah – that was Earth. So the whole “you make your own Earth” solution is out the window. Two planets, exact same continent structure – not buying it.
Of course, the capital offense came in doing what we shouldn’t expect Battlestar to have an easy time with: tying up those loose ends. Space opera action, no concerns. Characters, no concerns – but messed it up anyways. Tying up loose ends? Fail. Deus Ex Machina has become a cop-out device for writers in the modern era. We are supposed to be refined descendants of decade upon decade of narrative refinement, saying ‘god did it’ is not only unacceptable – it offends our finely honed sensibilities as an audience. When you reduce the explanation to “it was God’s will,” then have the nerve to insinuate that God is actually somebody else – setting up yet another mystery you don’t intend to elaborate on – all you are really saying is that you didn’t bother to work these things out.
For the lofty idealism and shower epiphanies, Battlestar’s finale winds up being a product of creative energy being focused where it didn’t need to be. Yes, the action elements were fantastic. The characters transformations that occurred within the trenches of battle were infinitely more compelling than the drunken antics of the flashbacks. The inability of the writers to wrap up the weirdness of Battlestar, however, really damaged the show’s mythology. It will be hard to look back with the explanation of “God’s Will” and take any of the metaphysical twists and turns as anything other than poorly thought-out attempts to tap into the appeal of shows like LOST, or Twin Peaks.
On the grounds that the second ‘Earth’ is an impossibility in the plot (and no, I will not consider another Deus Ex Machina like ‘time travel’ to explain it), the bizarre fascination with how alcohol impairs judgment, and the lowest common denominator of using ‘God’s Will’ to explain everything (along with the needless new mystery of who the guy is who doesn’t like to be called God), I give BSG’s series finale two out of five stars.
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For those who have reached this point, and have forgotten what my complaints really were:
* Scorched Earth WAS Earth, they showed the continents. There is a link in the article to a post. This proves, if anything, that Moore did NOT know how it was going to end. Not a criminal offense, mind you, just a bit cheesy. He hoped noone would notice.
* The religious and metaphysical stuff has been GREAT! I love it! To resolve it by saying "it was religious and metaphysical stuff" is a cop-out on a grand scale.
* Why was every flashback about key characters getting drunk and showing bad judgment? Don't M.A.D.D commercials do this effectively enough? How does Roslin getting drunk and frakking a former student enlighten us to her character?
Okay… for those who are back on track, let's talk. (Please feel free to post all misguided pissed off 'reactions' in off-topic in the forums.)
<small>PS: Grammar Nazis are cry babies. (There are no perfect circles either! Oops, I shouldn't have said that… now they will all implode.)</small>
I couldn't disagree more. The entire plot of the series had revolved around Caprican mysticism and the conflict between two religious views of the Cylons vs the Colonials. The Colonial seemed to be cultural but making it's way to the forefront because of the holocaust. The Cylon, for many of them, seemed to be more revelatory and imminent. Clearly, to pay off the mysteries, there would need to be a religious solution. Starbuck paid off in an unexpected, but lofty way – just as you would expect of a supreme being who doesn't like names. I can grant the whole Opera House resolution and Hera's roll was a bit less satisfying than I'd like. It appears Hera was just a catalyst all along to create the desired outcome. Not what we would expect, but again if they were attempting to write a "supreme guiding intellect" story, which it was from the start with all the PIthian prophecies and all, then the subtle movement of pieces even as only a catalyst was very effective.
The whole "that was earth we saw before so it really fails the test" seems to me to be a red herring. I don't recall our continent shapes being distinct or visible to any degree. And, let's face it, Moore knew at that point how it would end so they wouldn't do that anyway! Im not sure that is a valid criticism on any level, especially because the connection to the audience in both the original and this one was, in great part, "are they going to show up in our sky?". Is Earth just the same in that universe as ours? If Earth had been only a Cylon world, the whole point of it in the story is pointless in the extreme. No, Earth always had to be more than just was revealed as a burnt out Cylon rock.
The piano notes leading to Earth – very good and again speaks to the placement of Kara at the right place and the right time by the supreme being. And the practical religion of BSG is insightful. Insightful because the lesson is that there can be a guiding overall supreme entity (beyond good and evil) as Baltar says that will direct the grand directions (Colonials escaping and reforming society for another try) and interacting in minute ways (the song for instance and Hera) while at the same time allowing creatures to behave creaturely. Pain, torture and death but also in the context of greater hope and purpose. Sounds eerily like any real world faith would have to be as well. Not just clouds in the sky, but an overall thread, strong as steel, but thin as a whisper and easily missed or doubted, that continues to lead to a new beginning. That kind of writing and story telling is, to a philosophical mind, epic and I applaud the writers.
The simple will say "bah, religion, humbug" – i want sci-fi. I think to really appreciate BSG and the final, very satisfying intellectually and philosophical, episode, you need to look beyond just pragmatism, science (Baltar the scientist becomes Baltar the Sage/Mystic) and the fight for survival to meaning. Meaning is not found in the base elements as much as in those elements of faith and mystery that BSG captures and examines from every angle.
The death of Laura, the revelation of Starbuck as a resurrected person on a mission, the revelation of the Baltar and Six angels as angels (not the winged kind, but the more down to earth, mission oriented, gritty kind) – all of these were excellent.
The only dis-satisfying parts for me was that was no pay off on the "harbinger of death" thing, that I can tell, for Kara. And that there were not somewhat larger communities of humans (Galen by himself? But the name is right for the British islands at least), Bill Adama by himself, etc. Maybe they had enough of their colonial tools to make it by themselves, but that part did seem a bit over the top theatrical to me.
Impressive and satisfying overall and some of the best overall Sci-Fi writing in television. I hope Caprica can strike such a deep chord and am very much looking forward to the Cylon point of view in The Plan to pay off more of this intricate universe of BSG.
I thought you said you weren't a grammar nazi? Judging by the explosion of anality, I'd say you are. ;)
By the way – I will forgive you for the comma splice in the first sentence of your reply, because despite the grammatical error I still understand your point. And despite the fact that you also misspelled by name – it's Jon, not John – I promise I won't dismiss your reply out of hand. And I promise, as well, that I won't try to focus on these errors because I don't have anything to say in reply to you.
Again, what is so amazingly spiritual about the finale? I understand you guys love the show, I do as well. I loved the finale for doing the things that Galactica always does well, I don't think the allusions of spirituality expanded any on the previous allusions of spirituality. It's one thing to claim there is significance, it's an entirely different task to give it context. Give me context. Please. I'd love for all this lofty pseudo-spirituality to have a bold and resonant meaning, but I'm not seeing it. Unfortunately, both of you are saying exactly what most of the zealots are saying – that it was beautiful, poetic, spiritual, had a huge message about mankind. I fail to see it.
I mean, the notion that by leaving our technology behind we get a clean slate is anti-spiritual. It implies that human action and motivation comes from without, not within. None of these previously very cognizant and depthy characters even put forward the notion that maybe the technology alone wasn't their problem.
About, the grammar, 2 things. First, no one uses correct punctuation, ever. There is a difference between an article featuring abused commas and an article filled with so many incorrectly replaced spellcheck words that a decoder ring is involved to understand what the author means. Secondly, I took absolutely nothing spiritual from BSG, but I do think it's cool that a sci-fi show would not shy away from featuring a God that takes no sides and just does whatever the frak he thinks is best to suit his Plan. The humans don't have to understand it, but with every cycle, who is to say that they arent starting to? Who's to say that this "God" isn't just a hyperevolved, bodiless cylon who can manifest at the dawn of time and sow the seeds of whole species'? I've never seen a show raise possibilities like that before on scifi tv and it rules. Suck it up.
Oh, and the second thing about the grammar, I forgot. It's a big thing too. 2: I IN NO WAY PROFFESS TO BE A JOURNALIST OR EVEN A BLOGGER. Even still, I always endeavor to make sure the words that I write are the actual words that I intend to write, regardless of whether the sentence containing said words is parsed correctly. Don't argue the point, just stop letting spellcheck do your "job."
Sorry, but pointing out construction issues and calling in other shows assuming there is a bias – not to mention ending your rants with 'suck it up' – does nothing but make you look like you are grasping for chinks in the armor. Really, none of your points have run counter to my points. Actually, your superior what-ifs to what the show offered just point out the very same issues.
To your below response – if you were a professional blogger or journalist, you'd know that statistically grammatical errors and typos are not confined to blogs as most hot headed commentators would like to believe. In fact, an issue of the Wall Street Journal contains numerous typos, as well as virtually any book on any store shelf.
On the other hand, for some reason commentators in the online community believe that by attacking issues of construction they somehow weaken the point. It is pretty common amongst sociologists studying the 'emerging' new-media world that this indicates a sense of inadequate response. Think about it. If you want to debate me, stay on topic. If you want to debate grammar, we can go to a grammar forum for that.
My point is, your continuing to throw a tizzy fit over a few typos makes you look an awful lot like someone who is avoiding the point. In the real world, nobody falls down and pees their pants over a few typos as long as the point is clear. Sorry, that may offend your grammar-nazi heart, but not all artists draw straight lines either. I've stated my case, answer it. Simply saying "well it could have been this" and "BSG does a lot of stuff like god would do" or whatever you are saying, doesn't answer the criticism that these particular flaws in the finale – not the series – were sort of BS.
Now that we've cleared up the place for grammar. Let me get this straight. The explanation for the shared vision is "it is God's will." The reason for Starbuck's resurrection is "it was God's will." However, God is probably not god, but some super evolved creature that we'll never know about. Is this all about right? Because, as I've said – I'm good with everything that came up to now. BSG is a brilliant series. A bit too brilliant for these explanations. And leaving lingering 'possibilities' doesn't make it okay.
I couldn’t disagree more. The entire plot of the series had revolved around Caprican mysticism and the conflict between two religious views of the Cylons vs the Colonials. The Colonial seemed to be cultural but making it’s way to the forefront because of the holocaust. The Cylon, for many of them, seemed to be more revelatory and imminent. Clearly, to pay off the mysteries, there would need to be a religious solution. Starbuck paid off in an unexpected, but lofty way – just as you would expect of a supreme being who doesn’t like names. I can grant the whole Opera House resolution and Hera’s roll was a bit less satisfying than I’d like. It appears Hera was just a catalyst all along to create the desired outcome. Not what we would expect, but again if they were attempting to write a “supreme guiding intellect” story, which it was from the start with all the PIthian prophecies and all, then the subtle movement of pieces even as only a catalyst was very effective.
The whole “that was earth we saw before so it really fails the test” seems to me to be a red herring. I don’t recall our continent shapes being distinct or visible to any degree. And, let’s face it, Moore knew at that point how it would end so they wouldn’t do that anyway! Im not sure that is a valid criticism on any level, especially because the connection to the audience in both the original and this one was, in great part, “are they going to show up in our sky?”. Is Earth just the same in that universe as ours? If Earth had been only a Cylon world, the whole point of it in the story is pointless in the extreme. No, Earth always had to be more than just was revealed as a burnt out Cylon rock.
The piano notes leading to Earth – very good and again speaks to the placement of Kara at the right place and the right time by the supreme being. And the practical religion of BSG is insightful. Insightful because the lesson is that there can be a guiding overall supreme entity (beyond good and evil) as Baltar says that will direct the grand directions (Colonials escaping and reforming society for another try) and interacting in minute ways (the song for instance and Hera) while at the same time allowing creatures to behave creaturely. Pain, torture and death but also in the context of greater hope and purpose. Sounds eerily like any real world faith would have to be as well. Not just clouds in the sky, but an overall thread, strong as steel, but thin as a whisper and easily missed or doubted, that continues to lead to a new beginning. That kind of writing and story telling is, to a philosophical mind, epic and I applaud the writers.
The simple will say “bah, religion, humbug” – i want sci-fi. I think to really appreciate BSG and the final, very satisfying intellectually and philosophical, episode, you need to look beyond just pragmatism, science (Baltar the scientist becomes Baltar the Sage/Mystic) and the fight for survival to meaning. Meaning is not found in the base elements as much as in those elements of faith and mystery that BSG captures and examines from every angle.
The death of Laura, the revelation of Starbuck as a resurrected person on a mission, the revelation of the Baltar and Six angels as angels (not the winged kind, but the more down to earth, mission oriented, gritty kind) – all of these were excellent.
The only dis-satisfying parts for me was that was no pay off on the “harbinger of death” thing, that I can tell, for Kara. And that there were not somewhat larger communities of humans (Galen by himself? But the name is right for the British islands at least), Bill Adama by himself, etc. Maybe they had enough of their colonial tools to make it by themselves, but that part did seem a bit over the top theatrical to me.
Impressive and satisfying overall and some of the best overall Sci-Fi writing in television. I hope Caprica can strike such a deep chord and am very much looking forward to the Cylon point of view in The Plan to pay off more of this intricate universe of BSG.
I thought you said you weren’t a grammar nazi? Judging by the explosion of anality, I’d say you are. ;)
By the way – I will forgive you for the comma splice in the first sentence of your reply, because despite the grammatical error I still understand your point. And despite the fact that you also misspelled by name – it’s Jon, not John – I promise I won’t dismiss your reply out of hand. And I promise, as well, that I won’t try to focus on these errors because I don’t have anything to say in reply to you.
Again, what is so amazingly spiritual about the finale? I understand you guys love the show, I do as well. I loved the finale for doing the things that Galactica always does well, I don’t think the allusions of spirituality expanded any on the previous allusions of spirituality. It’s one thing to claim there is significance, it’s an entirely different task to give it context. Give me context. Please. I’d love for all this lofty pseudo-spirituality to have a bold and resonant meaning, but I’m not seeing it. Unfortunately, both of you are saying exactly what most of the zealots are saying – that it was beautiful, poetic, spiritual, had a huge message about mankind. I fail to see it.
I mean, the notion that by leaving our technology behind we get a clean slate is anti-spiritual. It implies that human action and motivation comes from without, not within. None of these previously very cognizant and depthy characters even put forward the notion that maybe the technology alone wasn’t their problem.
About, the grammar, 2 things. First, no one uses correct punctuation, ever. There is a difference between an article featuring abused commas and an article filled with so many incorrectly replaced spellcheck words that a decoder ring is involved to understand what the author means. Secondly, I took absolutely nothing spiritual from BSG, but I do think it’s cool that a sci-fi show would not shy away from featuring a God that takes no sides and just does whatever the frak he thinks is best to suit his Plan. The humans don’t have to understand it, but with every cycle, who is to say that they arent starting to? Who’s to say that this “God” isn’t just a hyperevolved, bodiless cylon who can manifest at the dawn of time and sow the seeds of whole species’? I’ve never seen a show raise possibilities like that before on scifi tv and it rules. Suck it up.
Oh, and the second thing about the grammar, I forgot. It’s a big thing too. 2: I IN NO WAY PROFFESS TO BE A JOURNALIST OR EVEN A BLOGGER. Even still, I always endeavor to make sure the words that I write are the actual words that I intend to write, regardless of whether the sentence containing said words is parsed correctly. Don’t argue the point, just stop letting spellcheck do your “job.”
Sorry, but pointing out construction issues and calling in other shows assuming there is a bias – not to mention ending your rants with ‘suck it up’ – does nothing but make you look like you are grasping for chinks in the armor. Really, none of your points have run counter to my points. Actually, your superior what-ifs to what the show offered just point out the very same issues.
To your below response – if you were a professional blogger or journalist, you’d know that statistically grammatical errors and typos are not confined to blogs as most hot headed commentators would like to believe. In fact, an issue of the Wall Street Journal contains numerous typos, as well as virtually any book on any store shelf.
On the other hand, for some reason commentators in the online community believe that by attacking issues of construction they somehow weaken the point. It is pretty common amongst sociologists studying the ’emerging’ new-media world that this indicates a sense of inadequate response. Think about it. If you want to debate me, stay on topic. If you want to debate grammar, we can go to a grammar forum for that.
My point is, your continuing to throw a tizzy fit over a few typos makes you look an awful lot like someone who is avoiding the point. In the real world, nobody falls down and pees their pants over a few typos as long as the point is clear. Sorry, that may offend your grammar-nazi heart, but not all artists draw straight lines either. I’ve stated my case, answer it. Simply saying “well it could have been this” and “BSG does a lot of stuff like god would do” or whatever you are saying, doesn’t answer the criticism that these particular flaws in the finale – not the series – were sort of BS.
Now that we’ve cleared up the place for grammar. Let me get this straight. The explanation for the shared vision is “it is God’s will.” The reason for Starbuck’s resurrection is “it was God’s will.” However, God is probably not god, but some super evolved creature that we’ll never know about. Is this all about right? Because, as I’ve said – I’m good with everything that came up to now. BSG is a brilliant series. A bit too brilliant for these explanations. And leaving lingering ‘possibilities’ doesn’t make it okay.
Read the article I linked out to and you'll see that the continents did appear on part 2 of crossroads.
Let's be clear on one thing. I love BSG as a series. I hated the finale.
I cannot see how someone could see any valid spiritual messages from a handful of hours of science fiction programming. I think it is cool to have the metaphysical stuff, but spiritual? Nah. Not valid. I've been a deist for over twenty years and can't compare the spiritual revelations of Battlestar to what I've discovered in my independent pursuits. I think it was useful as a satire of the jihad, and nothing more.
And Kara resurrected for a purpose? Look at the wreckage she left behind while on her righteous mission?
That was all brilliantly done religious satire. Don't get me wrong. BSG's religious satire was awesome. I don't think it is worth following for personal spiritual enrichment though. ;)
Oh. Well, who's doing that? Every character on BSG is scummy as all hell.
Oh, well… weren't you agreeing with Dave? Or did you not read beyond the sentence where he declared he disagreed with me? Because Dave believes there are valid spiritual and philosophical messages to the finale. Since you so vehemently backed him up I assumed you actually read what he said. Did you actually read what I read? Because again, you seem to be missing the point. I love the same things you love about the series, I have issues with facets of the finale.
Read the article I linked out to and you’ll see that the continents did appear on part 2 of crossroads.
Let’s be clear on one thing. I love BSG as a series. I hated the finale.
I cannot see how someone could see any valid spiritual messages from a handful of hours of science fiction programming. I think it is cool to have the metaphysical stuff, but spiritual? Nah. Not valid. I’ve been a deist for over twenty years and can’t compare the spiritual revelations of Battlestar to what I’ve discovered in my independent pursuits. I think it was useful as a satire of the jihad, and nothing more.
And Kara resurrected for a purpose? Look at the wreckage she left behind while on her righteous mission?
That was all brilliantly done religious satire. Don’t get me wrong. BSG’s religious satire was awesome. I don’t think it is worth following for personal spiritual enrichment though. ;)
Oh. Well, who’s doing that? Every character on BSG is scummy as all hell.
Oh, well… weren’t you agreeing with Dave? Or did you not read beyond the sentence where he declared he disagreed with me? Because Dave believes there are valid spiritual and philosophical messages to the finale. Since you so vehemently backed him up I assumed you actually read what he said. Did you actually read what I read? Because again, you seem to be missing the point. I love the same things you love about the series, I have issues with facets of the finale.
Jon, I am more ambivalent about the finale than you, but you certainly settled on two of the strangest elements. The alcoholism and worship of drug abuse in this series both delights and mystifies me. It delights me because we so rarely see rampant drug abuse on television, especially among military officers armed with nuclear weapons. It mystifies me for the reasons you describe. As for Earth and associated plot problems, my objection is parallel; it's insane to propose that genetically compatible hominids evolved independently. It just doesn't make the least bit of any kind of sense. More to come.
I'm actually more ambivalent than I seem to be. The problem is, I'm ragingly pissed at the down-sides of the episode. I thought the space opera aspects and the character development directly related to that was awesome. But, again, that is to be expected from this show at this point – I really wanted something from the finale that would approximate Dave's sense of a religious experience.
For instance. I think the notion of panspermia allows for genetically compatible homonids… but they didn't choose to go that route. To Dave's point, maybe it is wrong to expect something rational… but narrative fiction is about as rational as you can get, and chalking everything up to "[Don't call him]God's will" was empty for me spiritually and narratively.
Yeah I think issues of drug use and want not are better portrayed on shows like Weeds and Breaking Bad, I just couldn't see anything in the subtext of these flash backs other than "Be careful folks, alcohol clouds your judgment and makes you act like an a-hole."
But seriously. I loved the episode for doing what BSG did great, but I thought Ron Moore was in la-la land when it came to the portions of the episode that should have transcended the show's norm. On that note, though, I can't think of a single writer – and I know a LOT of them – that would want the job of trying to transcend BSG's best work; I think you probably would need to be touched by god to do that easily. ;)
Jesus guys, the humans on earth evolved independently because CYLON GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS. I mean, come on now, thats like the 168,999,575th miraculous thing thats happened on BSG, a show that has never skirted the existence of a God in it's universe and just now you people are getting pissed? Wtf show were you watching for 4 years?
See I'm okay with the humans being there. It sort of reminded me of the book version of Contact. Something they cut from the movie was when Elle reaches the guys who transmitted the signal, they reveal that they have found a message of their own and it is encoded in the value of PI beyond a certain calculative point. I'm guessing cylon 'God' isn't truly god at all, since he apparently doesn't like to be called god.
Something like humans evolving independently is something I could live with as a mystery that is never solved.
Jon, I am more ambivalent about the finale than you, but you certainly settled on two of the strangest elements. The alcoholism and worship of drug abuse in this series both delights and mystifies me. It delights me because we so rarely see rampant drug abuse on television, especially among military officers armed with nuclear weapons. It mystifies me for the reasons you describe. As for Earth and associated plot problems, my objection is parallel; it’s insane to propose that genetically compatible hominids evolved independently. It just doesn’t make the least bit of any kind of sense. More to come.
I’m actually more ambivalent than I seem to be. The problem is, I’m ragingly pissed at the down-sides of the episode. I thought the space opera aspects and the character development directly related to that was awesome. But, again, that is to be expected from this show at this point – I really wanted something from the finale that would approximate Dave’s sense of a religious experience.
For instance. I think the notion of panspermia allows for genetically compatible homonids… but they didn’t choose to go that route. To Dave’s point, maybe it is wrong to expect something rational… but narrative fiction is about as rational as you can get, and chalking everything up to “[Don’t call him]God’s will” was empty for me spiritually and narratively.
Yeah I think issues of drug use and want not are better portrayed on shows like Weeds and Breaking Bad, I just couldn’t see anything in the subtext of these flash backs other than “Be careful folks, alcohol clouds your judgment and makes you act like an a-hole.”
But seriously. I loved the episode for doing what BSG did great, but I thought Ron Moore was in la-la land when it came to the portions of the episode that should have transcended the show’s norm. On that note, though, I can’t think of a single writer – and I know a LOT of them – that would want the job of trying to transcend BSG’s best work; I think you probably would need to be touched by god to do that easily. ;)
Jesus guys, the humans on earth evolved independently because CYLON GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS. I mean, come on now, thats like the 168,999,575th miraculous thing thats happened on BSG, a show that has never skirted the existence of a God in it’s universe and just now you people are getting pissed? Wtf show were you watching for 4 years?
See I’m okay with the humans being there. It sort of reminded me of the book version of Contact. Something they cut from the movie was when Elle reaches the guys who transmitted the signal, they reveal that they have found a message of their own and it is encoded in the value of PI beyond a certain calculative point. I’m guessing cylon ‘God’ isn’t truly god at all, since he apparently doesn’t like to be called god.
Something like humans evolving independently is something I could live with as a mystery that is never solved.
For those who have reached this point, and have forgotten what my complaints really were:
* Scorched Earth WAS Earth, they showed the continents. There is a link in the article to a post. This proves, if anything, that Moore did NOT know how it was going to end. Not a criminal offense, mind you, just a bit cheesy. He hoped noone would notice.
* The religious and metaphysical stuff has been GREAT! I love it! To resolve it by saying "it was religious and metaphysical stuff" is a cop-out on a grand scale.
* Why was every flashback about key characters getting drunk and showing bad judgment? Don't M.A.D.D commercials do this effectively enough? How does Roslin getting drunk and frakking a former student enlighten us to her character?
Okay… for those who are back on track, let's talk. (Please feel free to post all misguided pissed off 'reactions' in off-topic in the forums.)
PS: Grammar Nazis are cry babies. (There are no perfect circles either! Oops, I shouldn't have said that… now they will all implode.)
I know you consider this passe Jon, but I would like to chime in on the grammar issue. As a writer and editor with a phd and a string of publications I feel I can associate you both with the proper point of view, and the most academically acceptable vantage point on this argument of grammar vs substance. It is often argued that a compelling point counters improper construction, and it is true. There is no offense committed against the reader unless the writer has used improper terminology, bad facts, or grossly mutilated language. Language in this form falls under the art of persuasion – points are made not with proper construction, but with zeal for the authors belief and an undeniable thesis. I've marked many typo afflicted essays with A simply because their thesis was proven. Good writing communicates a belief. "Grammar Nazis" are no different from any other sort of bully, they stalk the streets looking to prey on what they view as the weaknesses of others.
I know you consider this passe Jon, but I would like to chime in on the grammar issue. As a writer and editor with a phd and a string of publications I feel I can associate you both with the proper point of view, and the most academically acceptable vantage point on this argument of grammar vs substance. It is often argued that a compelling point counters improper construction, and it is true. There is no offense committed against the reader unless the writer has used improper terminology, bad facts, or grossly mutilated language. Language in this form falls under the art of persuasion – points are made not with proper construction, but with zeal for the authors belief and an undeniable thesis. I’ve marked many typo afflicted essays with A simply because their thesis was proven. Good writing communicates a belief. “Grammar Nazis” are no different from any other sort of bully, they stalk the streets looking to prey on what they view as the weaknesses of others.
There was much I liked about the end, especially the cinematography. After four seasons of gray spaceships and relatively ugly planets (New Caprica), they really made the most of the paradise they found, with all the bird and grasses shots. They certainly made the scale biblical. If Hera is the ancestor of all living humans, doesn't that make her of religious significance regardless of whether God acts directly?
The problem is not really with the religion of the finale. It's with the Deus ex Machina of it, as Jon has argued. When a writer resorts to divine and extremely convenient intervention, it smacks of desperation. In other words, I think you could keep the religious content and not demand so many concessions from us on the plot.
What if they had discovered that projection was actually keying them into some universal intelligence, a sort of meta-net of machine thought. I am thinking here of the net in Don Simmons' "Hyperion." That would resolve the importance of Hera projecting and tie everything together, and you could still have God be at the center of it. It's just that God would have a plot device by which to work his will, instead of saying, "Shazam!"
I didn't really explain what I meant by a universal intelligence. They're always saying in the series all of this has happened before. What if there have already been rare successes, where machines and people have evolved into a universal intelligence with powers unknown? When Cylons project, they are inadvertently keying into the higher order's data net. This draws the notice of these higher beings, who then guide the survivors to Earth through implanted visions and the like. These higher beings are not God, but they feel that they act on his name. Of course, the show would spell all this out as I've done here, but just some hints of it would give us an escape hatch on the miracles. That's what most religious stories do. It's a miracle, but there might be another explanation for it.
There was much I liked about the end, especially the cinematography. After four seasons of gray spaceships and relatively ugly planets (New Caprica), they really made the most of the paradise they found, with all the bird and grasses shots. They certainly made the scale biblical. If Hera is the ancestor of all living humans, doesn’t that make her of religious significance regardless of whether God acts directly?
The problem is not really with the religion of the finale. It’s with the Deus ex Machina of it, as Jon has argued. When a writer resorts to divine and extremely convenient intervention, it smacks of desperation. In other words, I think you could keep the religious content and not demand so many concessions from us on the plot.
What if they had discovered that projection was actually keying them into some universal intelligence, a sort of meta-net of machine thought. I am thinking here of the net in Don Simmons’ “Hyperion.” That would resolve the importance of Hera projecting and tie everything together, and you could still have God be at the center of it. It’s just that God would have a plot device by which to work his will, instead of saying, “Shazam!”
I didn’t really explain what I meant by a universal intelligence. They’re always saying in the series all of this has happened before. What if there have already been rare successes, where machines and people have evolved into a universal intelligence with powers unknown? When Cylons project, they are inadvertently keying into the higher order’s data net. This draws the notice of these higher beings, who then guide the survivors to Earth through implanted visions and the like. These higher beings are not God, but they feel that they act on his name. Of course, the show would spell all this out as I’ve done here, but just some hints of it would give us an escape hatch on the miracles. That’s what most religious stories do. It’s a miracle, but there might be another explanation for it.
I also maintain encountering hominids who are genetically compatible with the crew is stupid, God or none. We share so many of our genes with the rest of life on Earth, and there are so many idiosyncratic structures in our bodies. There is no way we showed up on a spaceship 150,000 years ago. Panspermia cannot even come close to covering a single, breeding species evolving twice on planets separated by trillions of miles.
So the hominids are just another miracle, and miracles are a boring way to resolve plot lines.
That said, I still liked that the series resolved into an ancestor tale. I too feel that the story was essentially sound, but it failed to jump over some big cracks. The mysticism about life and death at the end was moving.
Actually Panspermia does cover the emergence of similar organisms. You might be thinking of something else. The core belief of Panspermia is that life in the Universe proper is spread from a single source. In that case, similar organisms would be an eventuality.
It's possible that life elsewhere in the universe is made of the same stuff as us, even to the extent that the genes are encoded in DNA. Such creatures would be completely recognizable to us as creatures, and we might be able to eat them without ill effects, etc.
But no one suggests that a single species could evolve in many places at once without any gene flow between the populations. That is simply impossible.
Moreover, we can trace our evolutionary history at the molecular level. For example, the so-called homeobox genes that govern where arms and legs go is the same in both fruit flies and human beings. The only explanation for this fact is that flies and human beings shared a common ancestor about 500 million years ago. This is only one piece in an avalanche of evidence that human beings are in a lineage of life that has been on this planet for a long time.
I always hoped that BSG would find a way to discover a lost Earth that was actually the origin of all the colonies, but I guess Moore had other ideas.
I'm referring more to the notions in Panspermia that the spread of life could be a guided process. I wouldn't have bought it in the show unless it was done really well, but it would have fit – if you think about it. The process has already been introduced with the Cylons spreading 'life' to the Caprica system… or trying to.
If anything, though, I think the very advances in biology that you reference are why Panspermia isn't considered a valid scientific theory any longer…
I misunderstood what you were getting at. That form of panspermia, where it was guided by an intelligence, would have fit very nicely. I don't see why they didn't explore some of these alternatives. It asks a lot of fans to just swallow miracles without any real explanations.
Well let me tack this on… it's not a simple explanation, however there are aspects to the theory – and certainly permutations of the theory – that would make a good starting point to explaining it outside of the simple "God's will" horse-pill we are supposed to swallow… without water. ;)
I also maintain encountering hominids who are genetically compatible with the crew is stupid, God or none. We share so many of our genes with the rest of life on Earth, and there are so many idiosyncratic structures in our bodies. There is no way we showed up on a spaceship 150,000 years ago. Panspermia cannot even come close to covering a single, breeding species evolving twice on planets separated by trillions of miles.
So the hominids are just another miracle, and miracles are a boring way to resolve plot lines.
That said, I still liked that the series resolved into an ancestor tale. I too feel that the story was essentially sound, but it failed to jump over some big cracks. The mysticism about life and death at the end was moving.
Actually Panspermia does cover the emergence of similar organisms. You might be thinking of something else. The core belief of Panspermia is that life in the Universe proper is spread from a single source. In that case, similar organisms would be an eventuality.
It’s possible that life elsewhere in the universe is made of the same stuff as us, even to the extent that the genes are encoded in DNA. Such creatures would be completely recognizable to us as creatures, and we might be able to eat them without ill effects, etc.
But no one suggests that a single species could evolve in many places at once without any gene flow between the populations. That is simply impossible.
Moreover, we can trace our evolutionary history at the molecular level. For example, the so-called homeobox genes that govern where arms and legs go is the same in both fruit flies and human beings. The only explanation for this fact is that flies and human beings shared a common ancestor about 500 million years ago. This is only one piece in an avalanche of evidence that human beings are in a lineage of life that has been on this planet for a long time.
I always hoped that BSG would find a way to discover a lost Earth that was actually the origin of all the colonies, but I guess Moore had other ideas.
I’m referring more to the notions in Panspermia that the spread of life could be a guided process. I wouldn’t have bought it in the show unless it was done really well, but it would have fit – if you think about it. The process has already been introduced with the Cylons spreading ‘life’ to the Caprica system… or trying to.
If anything, though, I think the very advances in biology that you reference are why Panspermia isn’t considered a valid scientific theory any longer…
I misunderstood what you were getting at. That form of panspermia, where it was guided by an intelligence, would have fit very nicely. I don’t see why they didn’t explore some of these alternatives. It asks a lot of fans to just swallow miracles without any real explanations.
Well let me tack this on… it’s not a simple explanation, however there are aspects to the theory – and certainly permutations of the theory – that would make a good starting point to explaining it outside of the simple “God’s will” horse-pill we are supposed to swallow… without water. ;)
And what about the Lords of Kobol? Galactica ended and we don't know anything about them. Is the episode suggesting that the "Cylon God" was the true one, and the gods of the 12 Colonies merely idols? If that is the case, I'm going to be very disappointed. During the series I was thinking about many different "entities" (somekind of aliens, like the "First Ones" in Babylon 5) acting like gods to the humans and fighting another entity of their own kind, the "God Cylon".
About the continents of Earth… Moore explained in an interview that what we see in Crossroads is "our" Earth, not the Cylon one. Note that when they arrive at the Cylon Earth in "Revelations" they're careful not to show any geography. So the criticism about "Two planets, exact same continent structure" is wrong, i think.
I think… with a hard stress on think… that what Moore tried to do with the introduction of ethereal Baltar and 6, and their talk of not-God, was cast both mythologies to the wind.
Jon, when was that interview? Because I suspect he will try to wiggle free, but there was also the issue of constellations that would not look the same from other-earth.
And what about the Lords of Kobol? Galactica ended and we don’t know anything about them. Is the episode suggesting that the “Cylon God” was the true one, and the gods of the 12 Colonies merely idols? If that is the case, I’m going to be very disappointed. During the series I was thinking about many different “entities” (somekind of aliens, like the “First Ones” in Babylon 5) acting like gods to the humans and fighting another entity of their own kind, the “God Cylon”.
About the continents of Earth… Moore explained in an interview that what we see in Crossroads is “our” Earth, not the Cylon one. Note that when they arrive at the Cylon Earth in “Revelations” they’re careful not to show any geography. So the criticism about “Two planets, exact same continent structure” is wrong, i think.
I think… with a hard stress on think… that what Moore tried to do with the introduction of ethereal Baltar and 6, and their talk of not-God, was cast both mythologies to the wind.
Jon, when was that interview? Because I suspect he will try to wiggle free, but there was also the issue of constellations that would not look the same from other-earth.
Here's the interview where Moore talks about the final sequence of Crossroads:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertain…
Yeah. Well, conducted on 3/21/09… you have to admit, that seems a-lot like a retro fix.
Based on this interview it seems like at the time of Crossroads he knew what he was doing. I don't remember the shot of our Earth from that episode well enough to be able to know if it was an intentional fake-out or if Moore is trying to cover his tracks.
Even taking into account the stuff he says in this interview I still have the same problems with the finale. It's still answering everything by saying "it's god's will." That really is a lame way to pay off all of the questions that came up. It seems even slightly lamer to me now that Moore is saying that was his intention. It really is a cop-out and if that was what he wanted to say it could have been done a lot better than it was.
I'm not a fan of having answers to all of the questions. I would rather they leave the questions completely unanswered than provide one blanket answer chalking everything up to god.
Hey Eric,
Here is a link to a clip of the end of Crossroads to refresh your memory. You have to watch all 2 minutes of it, but it seems ambiguous enough that it could have been Moore's plan. But it also could have just as easily been Moore covering his tracks.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/63028/battlestar-galact…
Now if they could only explain why Kara's god programmed viper led them to the wrong Earth… ;)
Yeah, that is definitely ambiguous enough that it could be either Earth. The god-Viper took them to the wrong/real Earth because that was part of god's plan. Didn't you get the finale at all?
Seriously it does make sense that they would have to go through finding the real Earth, making friends with the Cylons, and everything that resulted from that before they came to the point where they were ready to "start over" on the new/our Earth. So I'm OK with that part of it.
I was ambivalent about the finale as well. Parts of it were incredibly great, but overall I was a bit disappointed. Regardless of whether the Cylon Earth was intended to be our Earth, it is pretty clear that Moore and the writers did NOT know how the show was going to end the entire way. Moore has clearly said this in his podcasts. That lack of a plan really showed up in this finale. Some mysteries had unsatisfying conclusions, others were ignored.
It seemed to me that things were really rushed in this last half of this season. I don't think they were prepared to end the show when it ended. So they had to rush a few story lines, come up with answers to questions in a shorter than expected time frame, and naturally not everything was satisfying. I thought that given these constraints they did a pretty good job. I was disappointed at Kara not being explained, Hera not having any more important of a role than she did, and really disappointed at the Opera House thing having such a lame pay off.
But it was still a great show and I enjoyed the finale.
Yeah, I agree with you Eric, except that I don't think the rushed part is a valid excuse for the creative team. They picked the end date of the series and should have had plenty of time to wrap things up. Not to mention the fact that the last several episodes leading up to the finale were incredibly disappointing and slow. Why we need a whole episode about Kara learning a piano song when she was a child, and another whole episode just to discuss how sad it was that Galactica was going to be scrapped, I'll never understand. I realize that we needed both of these pieces of information, but a whole episode for each one? That's just insane. No, I say they had all the time that they needed, and just didn't use their time appropriately.
Good point about not using the time properly. However I don't think they got to pick an end date of the series. I think SciFi (or SyFy) canceled it and they were kind of stuck with a forced end date in the middle of the story.
I do think they could have used the remaining episodes better. This part of the season started out good – with the first episode or two – and then we went on a bunch of tangents, with the mutiny, and the Kara song, and Kara's father, and the Cylon goop in Galactica. Most of that could have been dropped and they could have used those episodes better. I enjoyed the last few episodes – even though they were slow they felt like they were building up to something and did add something to the characters, but the middle of this last bunch were really wasted.
I was also disappointed that the Final Five backstory was exposited by Anders as opposed to being laid out in a natural fashion. I felt really cheated by that. We've been building up for the backstory of the Final Five for several seasons, it's been hinted that the history is going to play a large role, and then Anders just blurts it out and it's done.
I was ambivalent about the finale as well. Parts of it were incredibly great, but overall I was a bit disappointed. Regardless of whether the Cylon Earth was intended to be our Earth, it is pretty clear that Moore and the writers did NOT know how the show was going to end the entire way. Moore has clearly said this in his podcasts. That lack of a plan really showed up in this finale. Some mysteries had unsatisfying conclusions, others were ignored.
It seemed to me that things were really rushed in this last half of this season. I don’t think they were prepared to end the show when it ended. So they had to rush a few story lines, come up with answers to questions in a shorter than expected time frame, and naturally not everything was satisfying. I thought that given these constraints they did a pretty good job. I was disappointed at Kara not being explained, Hera not having any more important of a role than she did, and really disappointed at the Opera House thing having such a lame pay off.
But it was still a great show and I enjoyed the finale.
Yeah, I agree with you Eric, except that I don’t think the rushed part is a valid excuse for the creative team. They picked the end date of the series and should have had plenty of time to wrap things up. Not to mention the fact that the last several episodes leading up to the finale were incredibly disappointing and slow. Why we need a whole episode about Kara learning a piano song when she was a child, and another whole episode just to discuss how sad it was that Galactica was going to be scrapped, I’ll never understand. I realize that we needed both of these pieces of information, but a whole episode for each one? That’s just insane. No, I say they had all the time that they needed, and just didn’t use their time appropriately.
Good point about not using the time properly. However I don’t think they got to pick an end date of the series. I think SciFi (or SyFy) canceled it and they were kind of stuck with a forced end date in the middle of the story.
I do think they could have used the remaining episodes better. This part of the season started out good – with the first episode or two – and then we went on a bunch of tangents, with the mutiny, and the Kara song, and Kara’s father, and the Cylon goop in Galactica. Most of that could have been dropped and they could have used those episodes better. I enjoyed the last few episodes – even though they were slow they felt like they were building up to something and did add something to the characters, but the middle of this last bunch were really wasted.
I was also disappointed that the Final Five backstory was exposited by Anders as opposed to being laid out in a natural fashion. I felt really cheated by that. We’ve been building up for the backstory of the Final Five for several seasons, it’s been hinted that the history is going to play a large role, and then Anders just blurts it out and it’s done.
Here's the interview where Moore talks about the final sequence of Crossroads:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertain…
Yeah. Well, conducted on 3/21/09… you have to admit, that seems a-lot like a retro fix.
Based on this interview it seems like at the time of Crossroads he knew what he was doing. I don’t remember the shot of our Earth from that episode well enough to be able to know if it was an intentional fake-out or if Moore is trying to cover his tracks.
Even taking into account the stuff he says in this interview I still have the same problems with the finale. It’s still answering everything by saying “it’s god’s will.” That really is a lame way to pay off all of the questions that came up. It seems even slightly lamer to me now that Moore is saying that was his intention. It really is a cop-out and if that was what he wanted to say it could have been done a lot better than it was.
I’m not a fan of having answers to all of the questions. I would rather they leave the questions completely unanswered than provide one blanket answer chalking everything up to god.
Hey Eric,
Here is a link to a clip of the end of Crossroads to refresh your memory. You have to watch all 2 minutes of it, but it seems ambiguous enough that it could have been Moore's plan. But it also could have just as easily been Moore covering his tracks.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/63028/battlestar-galact…
Now if they could only explain why Kara’s god programmed viper led them to the wrong Earth… ;)
Yeah, that is definitely ambiguous enough that it could be either Earth. The god-Viper took them to the wrong/real Earth because that was part of god’s plan. Didn’t you get the finale at all?
Seriously it does make sense that they would have to go through finding the real Earth, making friends with the Cylons, and everything that resulted from that before they came to the point where they were ready to “start over” on the new/our Earth. So I’m OK with that part of it.
I personally feel that the last episode was ok. It took me a bit of time to get to "ok" from "let down". The last episode was ok because it wrapped up the story and gave you closure on the characters. I was initially let down because I expected more of a surprise from the team at battlestar galactica. The argument regarding which earth they found doesnt bother me so much. It could be explained by either a technical frak up or that the coordinates for the last jump took the fleet through the black hole and into the past. for some reason its more the final introduction of ethereal beings that pissed me off. I know that the show spoke about mysticism/ religion throughout but I dont feel that it presented it as "real" until the final episode. A bit more set up or explanation would have made me feel better about the whole thing but as it stands the ending for me is mediocre and puts a bit of a tint on the whole series because of it. If the ending was as kick ass as the series as a whole I would have no doubt proclaimed it as the best work of art in television ever.
I'm still hoping the TV movie about the cylons will bring a better understanding and create a good feeling about that side of the battlestar galactica mythos.
I personally feel that the last episode was ok. It took me a bit of time to get to “ok” from “let down”. The last episode was ok because it wrapped up the story and gave you closure on the characters. I was initially let down because I expected more of a surprise from the team at battlestar galactica. The argument regarding which earth they found doesnt bother me so much. It could be explained by either a technical frak up or that the coordinates for the last jump took the fleet through the black hole and into the past. for some reason its more the final introduction of ethereal beings that pissed me off. I know that the show spoke about mysticism/ religion throughout but I dont feel that it presented it as “real” until the final episode. A bit more set up or explanation would have made me feel better about the whole thing but as it stands the ending for me is mediocre and puts a bit of a tint on the whole series because of it. If the ending was as kick ass as the series as a whole I would have no doubt proclaimed it as the best work of art in television ever.
I’m still hoping the TV movie about the cylons will bring a better understanding and create a good feeling about that side of the battlestar galactica mythos.
I agree with the article.
In the end the use of God was a big cheat on the mysteries they set up. God's motives and abilities remained utterly mysterious and did nothing but advance the plot when convenient for the writers. The meaning of the Opera house vision was merely that it was a vision hinting vaguely and opaquely at the future. Baltar is thus inspired to give the worst speech ever given on Galactica.
There's something incredibly arrogant (not necessarily a bad thing) about making God a character in your story because the real gods in these fictional universes are the writers (or in television, perhaps its the producers). You can pull it off if God himself is actually an interesting character and you have something to say about the nature of godhood, but not if that God remains utterly mysterious and just advances the plot when convenient for the writers.
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2009/03/it-is-fin…
I agree with the article.
In the end the use of God was a big cheat on the mysteries they set up. God's motives and abilities remained utterly mysterious and did nothing but advance the plot when convenient for the writers. The meaning of the Opera house vision was merely that it was a vision hinting vaguely and opaquely at the future. Baltar is thus inspired to give the worst speech ever given on Galactica.
There's something incredibly arrogant (not necessarily a bad thing) about making God a character in your story because the real gods in these fictional universes are the writers (or in television, perhaps its the producers). You can pull it off if God himself is actually an interesting character and you have something to say about the nature of godhood, but not if that God remains utterly mysterious and just advances the plot when convenient for the writers.
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2009/03/it-is-fin…
There were only two things that did not make sense for me. One of them was The question of repeated mistakes. So the Cylons were invented on Kobol, then they buggered off to Earth. So then Kobol had technology, and their "gods" and ect would have been better documented or something, but is lost in the sands of time. You would think they would have mentioned "oh hey, the other tribe, yeah. they are machines". So the twelve tribes leave Kobol and set up the Colonies, invent Cylons, the Cylons destroy the twelve colonies. They travel across the stars and find a new planet that they settle on. Now I understand the idea of we are the decendents and they had to drop their baggage at the door, but you would think that they would want their history to live on. Remember all of those talks about how history would judge their actions? I thought that was the whole idea of the show was to remember the fallen and keep their society alive. Even if they decided to just drop their past forever, let the scrolls, the technology and their government fall into oblivion, you would at least think that they would have passed on information not to build machines with AI. That is the ultimate message that should have been passed on. Because I have a feeling that all of this will happen again. Its an idea for another series. Other than that the only other thing that hit me as off in the amazing finale of the show, other than the centurions taking the basestar and everyone trusting them that they won't come back to blow them all to hell, was the cast spreading out. Lee is left alone, Galen goes off alone, Adama also goes off alone… though I was really happy that Baltar and Six got back together. Baltar was always my favourite character, so…
There were only two things that did not make sense for me. One of them was The question of repeated mistakes. So the Cylons were invented on Kobol, then they buggered off to Earth. So then Kobol had technology, and their “gods” and ect would have been better documented or something, but is lost in the sands of time. You would think they would have mentioned “oh hey, the other tribe, yeah. they are machines”. So the twelve tribes leave Kobol and set up the Colonies, invent Cylons, the Cylons destroy the twelve colonies. They travel across the stars and find a new planet that they settle on. Now I understand the idea of we are the decendents and they had to drop their baggage at the door, but you would think that they would want their history to live on. Remember all of those talks about how history would judge their actions? I thought that was the whole idea of the show was to remember the fallen and keep their society alive. Even if they decided to just drop their past forever, let the scrolls, the technology and their government fall into oblivion, you would at least think that they would have passed on information not to build machines with AI. That is the ultimate message that should have been passed on. Because I have a feeling that all of this will happen again. Its an idea for another series. Other than that the only other thing that hit me as off in the amazing finale of the show, other than the centurions taking the basestar and everyone trusting them that they won’t come back to blow them all to hell, was the cast spreading out. Lee is left alone, Galen goes off alone, Adama also goes off alone… though I was really happy that Baltar and Six got back together. Baltar was always my favourite character, so…