I have to say, I’m a bit astonished by the amount of people who think Blu-Ray is some kind of fad. Every time I hear somebody say that the format will eventually fade out I wonder if they even have eyeballs. That said, I can understand how some people would see it that way. Blu-Ray, under the wrong circumstances, may not seem like much of a big deal. Under ideal circumstances, though, it can be a revelation — and LOST, with its abundant natural light and distinctive natural locations, is the perfect vehicle for enlightenment to the power of Blu-Ray.
Here’s the thing, I’m writing this for LOST fans so I know I don’t need to convince you to buy ‘the show’itself, but trust me on this: LOST has to be seen on Blu-Ray. There is another dimension revealed which is difficult to put into words, but let me try:
When I visited Hawaii during the production of Season 4 (I was on the set for the filming of the episode ‘The Other Woman’) something very strange happened that probably wouldn’t happen if you were visiting the set of any other show. Most notably, this happened in the Kualoa valley where numerous scenes have been filmed for LOST.
You stand there, gaze up at the eroding volcanic foot hills that flank the undulate pastures, and suddenly it strikes you: ‘the island is real.’Walk beneath the dense canopy of a Banyon tree grove and the shadows come to life with the sinister presence of the others. You get the picture. LOST is as much a product of the inspiring terrain that it is filmed on as the minds of the writers who create it. Some of that is lost when you watch LOST on television. Nature has a level of detail that will forever surpass any television resolution. Which brings us back to the technical merits of Blu-Ray.
I’m old enough to remember the old laserdiscs that preceded DVDs. Imagine Vinyl LP sized DVDs, that is essentially what they were. They nearly doubled the line resolution of VHS, delivering 420 lines versus VHS’s 240. The problem was, most television sets were not designed to accurately display progressively. Anything over 240 lines would be displayed with a process called interlacing. So 420 was actually 480i. Without digital precision, 480i was kinda meh back in the day. It was better than VHS, don’t get me wrong, but the limitations of most consumer level TVs really deprived laserdisc of its promise.
DVD was not far behind. Anybody remember the component input revolution? Think your DVD player looks great? Wait until you take it out from the 3 wire video/audio left/audio right setup and put it in color stream/component. All of this technical gobbilty gook basically comes down to this: our television technology is outpaced by our media storage capabilities. The same couldn’t be truer for blu-ray.
As far as consumer pricing is concern, capable 1080p TV’s have not entered the market until the last year or so. Sure, if you are blowing $1,200 + on a television you probably have one. Even now, there are numerous 720p sets amongst the flat panel collections of your local Best Buy, and many of the 1080p’s there are still too slow to truly enjoy 1080p. If the television cannot display the picture fast enough, compromises have to be made — in the case of Blu-Ray, the format demands very fast reproduction and the compromise is blocky pictures whenever the camera moves quickly, and bizarre pixilated ‘˜edging’on the characters. Most of it can be ‘˜gotten used to.’If you’re not convinced, go to your local Best Buy and ask for a demonstration of Blu Ray on a “Blu Ray capable” television. The bottom line is, this distinction does exist – and until you’ve seen the difference, Blu Ray may indeed seem like a fad.
So this all comes back to LOST. LOST, being filmed in locations that have details that elude the sensitivity of film emulsion, tests the reproduction capabilities of any format. Perhaps even Blu-Ray at 1080p isn’t nearly clear enough to summon that sense of LOST’s reality that standing in the Kualoa valley does, but it is damn close.
Everybody seems to be obsessed with whether or not the sets contain any new extras or not, they don’t. In fact, the old DVD extras aren’t even upsampled. If your TV reports resolution to you, you’ll find the extras are in plain old DVD-480. I say: so what. The opportunity to watch LOST with a palpable increase in the amount of natural detail is beyond the value of any extra they could throw in. Make no doubt about it, the main attraction for any LOST fan with the Blu Ray is the opportunity to watch the show with a whopping 360 lines of additional clarity that will make you appreciate the natural beauty of lost more than the broadcast 720p, or the low-res DVDs ever could.
Comparing the Blu Ray edition to the standard edition DVD is difficult without an appreciation of the technical virtues of a good Blu Ray setup. In terms of packaging, the Blu Ray sets are identical to the previously released LOST Season 3 and 4 Blu Rays sporting a hard shell plastic case with the standard paperback novel profile, versus the DVD trade paperback size. There is a noticable lack of inserts and booklets. It is very much a set targeted towards upgrading the viewing experience of the episodes themselves, and nothing more.
It is interesting to note that purchasing the Blu Ray does give you a $20 discount if you own the original DVD set, but you have to mutilate the box of your DVD set and the slipcover of the Blu Ray’s in order to provide the qualifying proof of purchase.
The bottom line: experienced technophiles don’t need to be told that Blu Ray wins on the merit of performance. If you are buying for the first time, LOST is defintiely a program that benefits from the upgraded bandwidth. Until something better comes along, Blu Ray is simply the best way to watch LOST — and anything else for that matter. Just make sure your TV is up to the task.
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I agree with the fact that it's unbelievable how many people still think Blu-Ray is just a fad. The same was said about DVD, and now just about every home in America has a DVD player of some sort. I plan on buying Lost Season 5 on Blu-Ray in December. And if anyone out there's concerned about paying $1200+ for a Blu-Ray capable TV, last summer I bought a 22' Blu-Ray capable 1080p monitor from Dell for $300, and it looks unreal.
And on a side note for all of you who are already on the HD/Blu-Ray train, consider buying Planet Earth or Band of Brothers on Blu-Ray. Both have the most amazing visuals you'll ever seen on a screen.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Band of Brothers. I need to get my BluRay player first (already have the TV), but then I'm definitely picking these up!
I agree with the fact that it’s unbelievable how many people still think Blu-Ray is just a fad. The same was said about DVD, and now just about every home in America has a DVD player of some sort. I plan on buying Lost Season 5 on Blu-Ray in December. And if anyone out there’s concerned about paying $1200+ for a Blu-Ray capable TV, last summer I bought a 22′ Blu-Ray capable 1080p monitor from Dell for $300, and it looks unreal.
And on a side note for all of you who are already on the HD/Blu-Ray train, consider buying Planet Earth or Band of Brothers on Blu-Ray. Both have the most amazing visuals you’ll ever seen on a screen.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Band of Brothers. I need to get my BluRay player first (already have the TV), but then I’m definitely picking these up!
I disagree about the part where you say that some 1080p displays are "too slow" to display 1080p video properly. If the display is "too slow" it will have noticeable motion blur in the image, not a blocky image. A blocky image is usually in the source material itself and is often caused by the way it was compressed. (the video codec and bit-rate are the two main factors here)
For those curious about the actual image quality of Lost on BD, Season 1 is mostly good but with some dirt or specks in the frame occasionally while Season 2 is much "cleaner" but still not perfect. The audio is lossless (DTS-HD Master Audio, 5.1 channels, 48kHz/16-bit) and in season 1 is great but in season 2 some of the dialog has background hiss, but only for certain characters in certain scenes. (This was likely a recording problem) The video compression is very good, with only one compression artifact that I noticed in all of season 1. (and none in season 2 so far) Colours tend to be a bit oversaturated in season 1 but it's only occasionally distracting.
Both seasons are very worthwhile purchases, especially if you don't already have them on DVD. Here are some screenshots: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=167…
Hey Nick. Actually – to extend the disagreement even further ;) – I have an LG here that is 720p, and slow as crap. When I have the ps3 hooked up, all my blu rays are blocky during fast motion. It's all due to processing within the set designed to overcome. I've seen this debated all over the place, and in general everybody is right… depending on the set. Poor input is the most likely, but if the tv is older and relying on all sorts of 'software' solutions to enhance the image problems can crop up.
Thanks for the additional comments on the set. Personally, I didn't notice oversaturation at any point. How is your set calibrated? Astute note on the audio, although generally true on analog and again may be less noticeable depending depending on your surround sound. My setup has a soft high-end, and I don't get much hiss at all. In this case, I definitely didn't notice it – so it is at worst not obvious.
Ok, I suppose some displays do get blocky then. I'm guessing you've already tried this, but if there are any unnecessary image processing settings on your set I would try disabling them. On my display I disabled everything other than "film mode" (inverse 3:2 pulldown deinterlacing).
I did a calibration of the user settings (aka not service menu) of my display using Digital Video Essentials on BD and it seems to be as close to standards as I can get it (with user settings). A good example of an over-saturated scene is Charlie's flashback in Liam's backyard in "The Moth", and there are a few jungle scenes in other episodes as well. Other people on avsforum and various reviews noticed over-saturation as well, so I don't think it's my setup causing this. For the audio I have heard worse background distortion in other movies/TV shows, but I did find it somewhat noticeable. "Man of Science, Man of Faith" was particularly distorted in many scenes but the later episodes in season 2 are much better in terms of audio.
Yipes! You had to make me look! On my set, I'm seeing some slight over saturation in some scenes… in particular, as you mention, the Moth.
The old LG was just bad. I was happy to move on… I have a samsung now for my main set – one of the newer touch of color sets, no more blocks.
I'm guessing you have a surround sound with superior high end response compared to my own. Mine is an older Toshiba, and has never had particularly great highs… which I would assume is where most of that hiss lives.
I thought this was going to be a review on Seasons 1 and 2 of Lost ON Blu-ray…NOT 1080p TV's and the Blu-ray format.
Well, not sure how much more you want? I assume we all know what LOST is by now, making the case for why you should re-buy the same episodes and extras you bought 3-4 years ago rests, in my opinion, entirely in the technical merits. The technical merits, as explained here, do make it worthwhile as LOST presents cinematography of natural beauty that expands along with the capabilities of the format it is shown in. The show itself, has not changed.
Well, maybe you could have talked about Lost ON Blu-ray….what's in the box, how it compares to DVD, etc. You know…an actual REVIEW like the title says.
Well, sadly… they gave me little to work with. As I say above, the extras are the same as the DVD extras and have not been enhanced. However, as I also say above, the improvement in picture alone is worth the purchase.
I thought this was going to be a review on Seasons 1 and 2 of Lost ON Blu-ray…NOT 1080p TV’s and the Blu-ray format.
Well, not sure how much more you want? I assume we all know what LOST is by now, making the case for why you should re-buy the same episodes and extras you bought 3-4 years ago rests, in my opinion, entirely in the technical merits. The technical merits, as explained here, do make it worthwhile as LOST presents cinematography of natural beauty that expands along with the capabilities of the format it is shown in. The show itself, has not changed.
Well, maybe you could have talked about Lost ON Blu-ray….what’s in the box, how it compares to DVD, etc. You know…an actual REVIEW like the title says.
Well, sadly… they gave me little to work with. As I say above, the extras are the same as the DVD extras and have not been enhanced. However, as I also say above, the improvement in picture alone is worth the purchase.
You're singing my song buddy! I inadvertantly joined the Blu-Ray team when I failed to flip a new PS3 on ebay in November of 2006. It has been my favorite toy ever since then. I seldom play games on it. I use it primarily as a Blu-Ray players.
I have always been astounded by the quality differences between Blu-Ray and everything else. Blu-Ray crushes all alternatives in terms of quality. Downloads, upscaled DVDs, streaming media, Cable, Dish, nothing can top Blu-Ray for pure quality of video and audio.
What we have here is a case of sour grapes. Those who invested heavily in DVD and/or cannot afford Blu-Ray are bitter that something better has come along. They speak in a biased manner, befitting bitterness.
I was almost in the same situation as you. November 2006, I waited in line two days in front of a Target store to be the first to get a PS3 on launch day because they were selling for thousands on eBay. After getting mine and selling it, I made about $150.
Of course, I later bought my own last January.
There is something to be said for using the PS3 as a blu ray, too. I've seen some blu ray specific content crap out on blu ray players, ps3 seems to be one of the most robust players. Not surprising since the damn thing is practically a super computer.
You’re singing my song buddy! I inadvertantly joined the Blu-Ray team when I failed to flip a new PS3 on ebay in November of 2006. It has been my favorite toy ever since then. I seldom play games on it. I use it primarily as a Blu-Ray players.
I have always been astounded by the quality differences between Blu-Ray and everything else. Blu-Ray crushes all alternatives in terms of quality. Downloads, upscaled DVDs, streaming media, Cable, Dish, nothing can top Blu-Ray for pure quality of video and audio.
What we have here is a case of sour grapes. Those who invested heavily in DVD and/or cannot afford Blu-Ray are bitter that something better has come along. They speak in a biased manner, befitting bitterness.
I was almost in the same situation as you. November 2006, I waited in line two days in front of a Target store to be the first to get a PS3 on launch day because they were selling for thousands on eBay. After getting mine and selling it, I made about $150.
Of course, I later bought my own last January.
There is something to be said for using the PS3 as a blu ray, too. I’ve seen some blu ray specific content crap out on blu ray players, ps3 seems to be one of the most robust players. Not surprising since the damn thing is practically a super computer.
Thanks for the review. I have been waiting for a review before I considered buying Blu Ray
Blu Ray is another stop on the road of technological improvement. Even now technologies are being developed that will make blu ray obsolete. For the cost, it just doesn't makes sense to buy blu ray for your average programs. For example, what would be the point of buying all the seasons of Friends on blu ray. For special effects laden films it makes perfect sense but for the everyday mundane television programing it makes little sense.
Couldn't agree with you more. There is definitely content that just isn't going to be enhanced by the format. LOST seems built for it. It is interesting to note that they have been mastering the show in 1080p from the beginning of production. Not that these are ancient masters anyways, but it is not a case of the negative being pulled and re-transferred. It was always designed to be viewed in this format.
I only buy movies and shows on Blu-Ray that I know will look good on Blu-Ray. I buy things with good visuals, or awesome special effects and sound quality. My current Blu-Ray collection includes:
Band of Brothers, Planet Earth, The Dark Knight, Wanted, Transformers and Ghostbusters.
…ok, so Ghostbusters doesn't look amazing or anything like that, but it was $15 on Amazon, and less expensive than the DVD version. Who could pass up an offer like that?!
Thanks for the review. I have been waiting for a review before I considered buying Blu Ray
Blu Ray is another stop on the road of technological improvement. Even now technologies are being developed that will make blu ray obsolete. For the cost, it just doesn’t makes sense to buy blu ray for your average programs. For example, what would be the point of buying all the seasons of Friends on blu ray. For special effects laden films it makes perfect sense but for the everyday mundane television programing it makes little sense.
Couldn’t agree with you more. There is definitely content that just isn’t going to be enhanced by the format. LOST seems built for it. It is interesting to note that they have been mastering the show in 1080p from the beginning of production. Not that these are ancient masters anyways, but it is not a case of the negative being pulled and re-transferred. It was always designed to be viewed in this format.
I only buy movies and shows on Blu-Ray that I know will look good on Blu-Ray. I buy things with good visuals, or awesome special effects and sound quality. My current Blu-Ray collection includes:
Band of Brothers, Planet Earth, The Dark Knight, Wanted, Transformers and Ghostbusters.
…ok, so Ghostbusters doesn’t look amazing or anything like that, but it was $15 on Amazon, and less expensive than the DVD version. Who could pass up an offer like that?!
I disagree about the part where you say that some 1080p displays are "too slow" to display 1080p video properly. If the display is "too slow" it will have noticeable motion blur in the image, not a blocky image. A blocky image is usually in the source material itself and is often caused by the way it was compressed. (the video codec and bit-rate are the two main factors here)
For those curious about the actual image quality of Lost on BD, Season 1 is mostly good but with some dirt or specks in the frame occasionally while Season 2 is much "cleaner" but still not perfect. The audio is lossless (DTS-HD Master Audio, 5.1 channels, 48kHz/16-bit) and in season 1 is great but in season 2 some of the dialog has background hiss, but only for certain characters in certain scenes. (This was likely a recording problem) The video compression is very good, with only one compression artifact that I noticed in all of season 1. (and none in season 2 so far) Colours tend to be a bit oversaturated in season 1 but it's only occasionally distracting.
Both seasons are very worthwhile purchases, especially if you don't already have them on DVD. Here are some screenshots: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=167…
Hey Nick. Actually – to extend the disagreement even further ;) – I have an LG here that is 720p, and slow as crap. When I have the ps3 hooked up, all my blu rays are blocky during fast motion. It’s all due to processing within the set designed to overcome. I’ve seen this debated all over the place, and in general everybody is right… depending on the set. Poor input is the most likely, but if the tv is older and relying on all sorts of ‘software’ solutions to enhance the image problems can crop up.
Thanks for the additional comments on the set. Personally, I didn’t notice oversaturation at any point. How is your set calibrated? Astute note on the audio, although generally true on analog and again may be less noticeable depending depending on your surround sound. My setup has a soft high-end, and I don’t get much hiss at all. In this case, I definitely didn’t notice it – so it is at worst not obvious.
Ok, I suppose some displays do get blocky then. I’m guessing you’ve already tried this, but if there are any unnecessary image processing settings on your set I would try disabling them. On my display I disabled everything other than “film mode” (inverse 3:2 pulldown deinterlacing).
I did a calibration of the user settings (aka not service menu) of my display using Digital Video Essentials on BD and it seems to be as close to standards as I can get it (with user settings). A good example of an over-saturated scene is Charlie’s flashback in Liam’s backyard in “The Moth”, and there are a few jungle scenes in other episodes as well. Other people on avsforum and various reviews noticed over-saturation as well, so I don’t think it’s my setup causing this. For the audio I have heard worse background distortion in other movies/TV shows, but I did find it somewhat noticeable. “Man of Science, Man of Faith” was particularly distorted in many scenes but the later episodes in season 2 are much better in terms of audio.
Yipes! You had to make me look! On my set, I’m seeing some slight over saturation in some scenes… in particular, as you mention, the Moth.
The old LG was just bad. I was happy to move on… I have a samsung now for my main set – one of the newer touch of color sets, no more blocks.
I’m guessing you have a surround sound with superior high end response compared to my own. Mine is an older Toshiba, and has never had particularly great highs… which I would assume is where most of that hiss lives.
I have also noticed the distortion or hiss during some of the dialogue which is particularly bad in season 2 and I even catch glimpses in season 3. I have a Pioneer 1018 so it's pretty good. I cheaped out though when I bought my TV over Christmas and have come to regret it recently, 720p Insignia. This fall I plan on buying a Samsung or Panasonic.
But even with the limitations of my TV, Lost looks stunning on Blu-Ray.
I have also noticed the distortion or hiss during some of the dialogue which is particularly bad in season 2 and I even catch glimpses in season 3. I have a Pioneer 1018 so it’s pretty good. I cheaped out though when I bought my TV over Christmas and have come to regret it recently, 720p Insignia. This fall I plan on buying a Samsung or Panasonic.
But even with the limitations of my TV, Lost looks stunning on Blu-Ray.
I agree with you @ 200,00000000000000 %. The Bluray picture is beyond awesome, and here's another technical fact/improvement you can add to your list:
Lost is shot on film at 24 frames per second (from now on, fps = frames per second).
Now when it airs on ABC, it is broadcast at 720p60, which means a resolution of 1280×720 at 59.94 fps. Yes, it is a progressive picture, but as you can see, it's a much higher frame rate than the original 24fps. This is achieved first by scanning the original film @ 23.976 fps and then by duplicating every odd frame once and every even frame twice. E.g, say you have two frames AB, they become AABBB. Also, 59.94/23,976=5/2. On your television set, you won't notice this, but it is a technical issue.
Now, on DVD, the film has to be telecined ( more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine ), which introduces telecine judder when played back at NTSC framerate (29.97 fps).
For people in Europe, this gets even worse, as your TV sets operate at 25fps, the whole film is scanned at 25 fps and in effect is sped up. Not only does this reduce the runtime, eg a 40 minute episode becomes 38 minutes and 24 seconds, but it also gives the audio a higher pitch. However, you don't to deal with telecine judder, since no telecine is performed on most PAL DVDs.
Which gets us back to BluRay; 1080p image, which is 2.25 times greater the area of a 720p image, losless studio sound, whether in PCM format, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio, which are infinitely much better than their lossy DVD counterparts. Finally, you may ask, why that whole rant? Well, Bluray delivers the picture at 1080p24, which is the original frame rate at which it was shot. So, no telecine, no sped up audio or video.
For arguments' sake, one may say DVDs can store the picture at 23.976 fps, but keep in mind that if you play it back on a SDTV, it will be telecined on most TV sets. Well, you might say, I'll play it on my brand new HDTV, yes, you'll get the very close 23.976 fps framerate, but the image will be upsampled.
So, all things considered, 1080p24 is the best out there that is commercially available.
I agree with you @ 200,00000000000000 %. The Bluray picture is beyond awesome, and here's another technical fact/improvement you can add to your list:
Lost is shot on film at 24 frames per second (from now on, fps = frames per second).
Now when it airs on ABC, it is broadcast at 720p60, which means a resolution of 1280×720 at 59.94 fps. Yes, it is a progressive picture, but as you can see, it's a much higher frame rate than the original 24fps. This is achieved first by scanning the original film @ 23.976 fps and then by duplicating every odd frame once and every even frame twice. E.g, say you have two frames AB, they become AABBB. Also, 59.94/23,976=5/2. On your television set, you won't notice this, but it is a technical issue.
Now, on DVD, the film has to be telecined ( more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine ), which introduces telecine judder when played back at NTSC framerate (29.97 fps).
For people in Europe, this gets even worse, as your TV sets operate at 25fps, the whole film is scanned at 25 fps and in effect is sped up. Not only does this reduce the runtime, eg a 40 minute episode becomes 38 minutes and 24 seconds, but it also gives the audio a higher pitch. However, you don't to deal with telecine judder, since no telecine is performed on most PAL DVDs.
Which gets us back to BluRay; 1080p image, which is 2.25 times greater the area of a 720p image, losless studio sound, whether in PCM format, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio, which are infinitely much better than their lossy DVD counterparts. Finally, you may ask, why that whole rant? Well, Bluray delivers the picture at 1080p24, which is the original frame rate at which it was shot. So, no telecine, no sped up audio or video.
For arguments' sake, one may say DVDs can store the picture at 23.976 fps, but keep in mind that if you play it back on a SDTV, it will be telecined on most TV sets. Well, you might say, I'll play it on my brand new HDTV, yes, you'll get the very close 23.976 fps framerate, but the image will be upsampled.
So, all things considered, 1080p24 is the best out there that is commercially available.
It is possible to do pitch correction for the audio when the video has to be sped up to 25 fps, but it seems that this process is often skipped for the European versions of movies/TV shows. If one is willing to spend the time one can slow down the audio and restore the original framerate (or just pitch correct the audio) with a computer, but that takes a long time and could be illegal depending on the copyright laws in your country.
Yes, it is possible, and there are also instances where a pulldown flag is inserted for every 12 frames of film, this way, for every 24 frames of film, you get 50 fields of video. Thus, the soundtrack can be used at it original length and pitch. This is a bit of a new process however. The great thing about 1080p is that it promises to break the international pal/ntsc barrier. (souce:wiki)
It is possible to do pitch correction for the audio when the video has to be sped up to 25 fps, but it seems that this process is often skipped for the European versions of movies/TV shows. If one is willing to spend the time one can slow down the audio and restore the original framerate (or just pitch correct the audio) with a computer, but that takes a long time and could be illegal depending on the copyright laws in your country.
Yes, it is possible, and there are also instances where a pulldown flag is inserted for every 12 frames of film, this way, for every 24 frames of film, you get 50 fields of video. Thus, the soundtrack can be used at it original length and pitch. This is a bit of a new process however. The great thing about 1080p is that it promises to break the international pal/ntsc barrier. (souce:wiki)
Yes yes yes! Blu-ray is the ONLY way to watch LOST.
Yes yes yes! Blu-ray is the ONLY way to watch LOST.
The subsequent time I learn a blog, I hope that it doesnt disappoint me as a lot as this one. I mean, I do know it was my option to learn, however I actually thought youd have one thing fascinating to say. All I hear is a bunch of whining about one thing that you can repair for those who werent too busy on the lookout for attention.